Mig-29S attacks 2 targets simultaneously?

[topol-m]

Ok here`s the deal. I`ve seen in several sources that the mig-29s radar allows it to attack 2 targets simultaneously. Is this true, and is this modeled somehow in game? As there are no Mig-29 tutorials and the ILS is pretty much like the one of su-27/33 i haven`t found a way to lock on 2 targets. The closest thing i`m able to do is fire 1 R-77 then unlock the current target, lock on the second one and fire second missile, is this the only option? Also when exactly the unlocking and locking on the second target should be done, the missile needs some time until its own radar begins tracking the target or despite unlocking the Migs radar continues tracking and guiding the R-77?

[GGTharos]

The answer to your question is unknown. Originally it was through the MiG-29C FCS was upgraded to support R-77 with the required datalink, leaving the radar mostly as-is (ie. single target). Someone somewhere said that a few (not all) of the MiG-29Cs got a new radar that was capable of engaging 2 targets simultaneously.

 

The number of existing MiG-29Cs is very small and they equipped R-27's anyway, so the real answer is not known, AFAIK.

[topol-m]

The answer to your question is unknown. Originally it was through the MiG-29C FCS was upgraded to support R-77 with the required datalink, leaving the radar mostly as-is (ie. single target). Someone somewhere said that a few (not all) of the MiG-29Cs got a new radar that was capable of engaging 2 targets simultaneously.

 

The number of existing MiG-29Cs is very small and they equipped R-27's anyway, so the real answer is not known, AFAIK.

 

Ok, so firing 2 missiles in game at 2 targets requires some waiting before second launch or not?

[GGTharos]

As far as LOMAC goes, you cannot simultaneously engage both targets. You must switch from one to the other. Whether you wait or not is dependent on the range to target, as well as separation in azimuth - usually the answer is yes, you have to wait.

[topol-m]

As far as LOMAC goes, you cannot simultaneously engage both targets. You must switch from one to the other. Whether you wait or not is dependent on the range to target, as well as separation in azimuth - usually the answer is yes, you have to wait.

 

Ok thanks. One more thing i`ve seen the R-27ER trying to intercept the target it is fired at even though i`ve switched to another target when it was several hundred metres away from its target. Is this normal? I thought i had to maintain stable lock until the missile hits (or misses). Can this happen earlier in the missile`s flight or it just happens in the last metres before hit?

[GGTharos]

I would have to see a track to say for certain, but the missile might be in HoJ mode if the bandit has the jammer on.

[topol-m]

I would have to see a track to say for certain, but the missile might be in HoJ mode if the bandit has the jammer on.

 

I will make some tests and create a video with fraps...

[GGTharos]

Or better yet, tacview :)

[topol-m]

Or better yet, tacview :)

 

Yeah i still don`t have it installed, my mistake :) But i see its very useful, so tacview it will be.

[Geier]

I would have to see a track to say for certain, but the missile might be in HoJ mode if the bandit has the jammer on.

There's one more point. When the lock is lost the missile goes directly to the last known estimated point of merging with the aim. In case when the target hasn't made any maneuvers the hit after changing lock seems to be very possible.

[topol-m]

There's one more point. When the lock is lost the missile goes directly to the last known estimated point of merging with the aim. In case when the target hasn't made any maneuvers the hit after changing lock seems to be very possible.

 

Yep, that must be the case i was unable to replicate it though...

[RvEYoda]

Yes ive been hit this way ^^

[Udat]

Simplest way to kill 2 guys in the 29S is firing an ET at one of them, locking up #2 and firing a 77, keeping him locked for as long as possible.. AFAIK the ET is no use supporting with radar lock, the R-77 will get underway-updates to it's course like the AMRAAM.. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

[GGTharos]

The real missile sure does. A lockon missile doesn't (although at short enough distances from the bandit it might look like it)

 

There's one more point. When the lock is lost the missile goes directly to the last known estimated point of merging with the aim. In case when the target hasn't made any maneuvers the hit after changing lock seems to be very possible.

[GGTharos]

What are you going to do when the ET can no longer be overriden and launched without a seeker lock? :P

 

Simplest way to kill 2 guys in the 29S is firing an ET at one of them, locking up #2 and firing a 77, keeping him locked for as long as possible.. AFAIK the ET is no use supporting with radar lock, the R-77 will get underway-updates to it's course like the AMRAAM.. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

[golfsierra2]

What are you going to do when the ET can no longer be overriden and launched without a seeker lock? :P

 

For a seeker lock, one has already to be very close to the bandit. Firing an ET in override mode, it requires some skills to predict the right lead and actual launch distance to make a kill work. It can be done, especially with less experienced opponents, but it isn't easy and often unreliable.

[GGTharos]

I doesn't require much skill at all. And further, you shouldn't be able to do it period ;)

[RvEYoda]

i managed to get the majority of my kills in my first day ever in a mig

simply by ET override. I'd say half the missiles fired hit.

 

This was after a few weeks in flight sims.

[Udat]

What are you going to do when the ET can no longer be overriden and launched without a seeker lock? :P

I'm talking about what's possible in lockon here, not in real life. But ok I'll bite.. Lock up #1, fire R-77. Guide it for 2-3 seconds. Break lock. Lock up and fire R-77 at #2. Guide for as long as possible. Not good odds for #1 but the best you can do I'd say.

 

As for the skills involved with ET kills, I agree with GG and Yoda 100%. It's rediculously overpowered.

Edited May 2, 2009 by Udat

[topol-m]

I`m doing exactly that with the R-77. But could someone actually explain step by step how is this exploit with the R-27ET working?

[GGTharos]

You can launch the ET with LA override and it will lock onto a target that the seeker was not previously locked - this isn't impossible, but very unlikely.

 

In reality LA override is used mainly to jettison those weapons because those pylons do not have pyrotechnics for ejecting the weapons.

 

You will not get LA normally unless the seeker locks on, and without seeker lock the missile won't launch. If you LA override it, the seeker might not be cooled (won't guide at all) or if you shoot too far, the seeker won't stay cooled long enough or it'll lock onto the sun, a reflection from a cloud, lake, or someone's window, etc. It's just a terribly low Pk shot, but in LOMAC it works well.

[Wilde]

But could someone actually explain step by step how is this exploit with the R-27ET working?

 

Alt-W Launch permission override (for RF aircrafts) 1.02

 

Launch it before target is in range. The point is, that the bogey won't go defensive as he doesn't get a launch warning. Obviously only works, if the bogey keeps closing in to you. But using this will make people hate you. :p

[GGTharos]

Actually they don't get a launch warning one way or another. That's not the point. The point is that this missile is being used well beyond its supposed capabilities ;)

 

LA-override is basically one huge hole in LOFC as implemented right now - it doesn't add anything except the ability to exploit the game.

[topol-m]

You can launch the ET with LA override and it will lock onto a target that the seeker was not previously locked - this isn't impossible, but very unlikely.

 

In reality LA override is used mainly to jettison those weapons because those pylons do not have pyrotechnics for ejecting the weapons.

 

You will not get LA normally unless the seeker locks on, and without seeker lock the missile won't launch. If you LA override it, the seeker might not be cooled (won't guide at all) or if you shoot too far, the seeker won't stay cooled long enough or it'll lock onto the sun, a reflection from a cloud, lake, or someone's window, etc. It's just a terribly low Pk shot, but in LOMAC it works well.

 

But in reality if you launch it just before LA is there a posibility for it to work, or not at all? Also in the game shouldn`t it go out of energy by the time it reaches the target if you launch it before LA?

[Case]

LA-override is basically one huge hole in LOFC as implemented right now - it doesn't add anything except the ability to exploit the game.

The hole is not overriding it, but having the seeker pick up targets as far as 60 degrees from it's axis. The R-77 and the AIM-120 suffer from the same problem.