Curious USB issue

[lesthegrngo]

Hi all, recently I added some bass shakers to my rig, which do add to the experience. I have 8 small transducers ranged around the seat driven by four USB 'sound card / amplifier' things (check out Nobsound amps on Amazon for the type of unit). I could get away with less transducers, however due to the way that they work I use Sim Haptics to drive some and Sim Shaker for the others, as at the moment there is a curious effect where some effects (eg the gun) blank out the other effects. By separating the effects between the programs I stop that from happening as much. In time I may simplify the setup if the program designers resolve that issue.

In the meantime, I am stuck with four amps, and I made a module to fit into the seat backrest area that includes a dedicated 24v power supply for the amps, a powered USB hub that takes a single USB input and splits it to the four amps, and of course the four amps themselves. Mains power is supplied to the 24v power supply via a dedicated switched line using G16 aviation style connectors. As for the USB, again a dedicated USB line goes from the PC motherboard USB 3.0 port, but due to the fact that I didn't want a plate of spaghetti it uses 6 separate parts to keep it all neat.

First is a male to male USB A 3.0 cable from the PC, to a captive female to female USB 3.0 connector mounted on the front of the console.

A USB cable with a USB A connector at the front then runs inside the console to the rear, where the wires have been soldered into a four way male G12 aviation connector mounted on a dedicated output plate (shared with the G16 connector for the mains power).

A short fly lead with G12 female connectors at either end then connects to the seat where an input plate again with a G12 and G16 connector for the USB and mains input are mounted. These then have internal fly leads to the power supply coupling and one last G12 connection for the USB, which is then soldered to the input lead for the hub. It sounds more complicated that it is, and when you actually se it it makes a lot more sense that my word salad above. It is also very neat, with minimal exposed wires

So the issue I have is that I connect it all up , and Windows duly recognises the four amps and it all starts working fine. Then about an hour later, the USB amps are no longer recognised, and disconnecting and reconnecting the USB connection does nothing, apart from sometimes, but not always, coming up with a 'the last USB device connected was not recognised).

To test, I have rigged up a single USB cable that goes directly from the Motherboard to the USB hub input, and this does not fail over time, meaning something about my setup is causing the issues. I have checked continuity, resistance, short circuits on all the cables I have made and cannot find anything wrong, meaning that something else must be at play. The fact that it works fine for a while in itself shows that the cables appear to be fundamentally ok in theory. 

Can it be that too many connections can cause interference, or maybe pick up some interference from outside?

I can obviously revert to using the single USB cable if I have to, which would grate on my OCD but I could probably hide it somehow - but I would like to know how to resolve the issue to ensure that I can implement other setups without problems

So, anyone got any ideas what I am doing wrong?

Les    

[mkel2010]

Sounds like Windows is powering off your USB devices based on a power setting in the OS. Take a look at this article:

https://www.howtogeek.com/296918/how-to-stop-windows-from-powering-off-your-usb-devices/

[lesthegrngo]

Thanks, I will take a look - however since I wrote the original post I have left the setup connected with the USB cable to the same USB port and hours later it is still all connected. Interestingly, once the PC starts giving the 'USB device not recognised' message (with my home made hardware), it will not resurrect by unplugging and replugging, even on another port

I think I've messed something up!  if it didn't work at all I would be less confused, but working for a while then giving up is weird

Les

[mkel2010]

1 hour ago, lesthegrngo said:

Thanks, I will take a look - however since I wrote the original post I have left the setup connected with the USB cable to the same USB port and hours later it is still all connected. Interestingly, once the PC starts giving the 'USB device not recognised' message (with my home made hardware), it will not resurrect by unplugging and replugging, even on another port

I think I've messed something up!  if it didn't work at all I would be less confused, but working for a while then giving up is weird

Les

Are you plugging into a built in port on the motherboard or an add-in card? If it's not the power settings, I'd check the drivers and then start looking at the USB hardware.

[lesthegrngo]

It's plugged in to the motherboard

I did a back to back test, where the only thing I changed was either my own multi piece USB cable, or the one piece commercially purchased one. With my cables the fault re-appears after a while, with the commercially produced cable with nothing else changing the fault never appears

It must be something to do with my cables, so I have to do some investigating

 

Les

 

[lesthegrngo]

I took this issue to a more electronics related forum, take a look here

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/usb-issue-using-homemade-cables.3854148/

There's some interesting discussion about how USB works and requirements, might be interesting for anyone messing around with USB devices

Cheers

Les

[lesthegrngo]

If any of you have been following this issue, it turns out making a USB cable setup using non-standard USB connectors is more tricky that it first looks.

In the end I got there by using good quality USB cable cannibalised from existing USB cables, and ensuring that there was complete grounding on the connectors etc., however it still was an imperfect solution as it needs a good quality powered USB hub to work properly. I do have one of those, but it has one major drawback; it is a switched USB hub. 

This particular USB hub (Aukey 7 Port USB 3.0 hub model CB-H3) is switched off by default so if it has been depowered, it remains off until you press the switch, which is a momentary press button rather than a bi-stable rocker. This means that I have to have the hub accessible so that I can press the switch every time I repower the rig, which defeats the object of having a monolithic module that is fitted inside the back rest of the seat. My design has it tucked neatly out of sight with no wires everywhere, and all the switches and cables are positioned to ensure they are not in the way

What I need to find is a a 12v four (min) port powered USB hub that is either unswitched or with a latching type switch which will stay 'on' even when depowered. There are none here where I live, so I have searched on Amazon to see if I can identify a candidate. Trouble is I am unable to zero in on one that is 12v powered. For instance, this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Extension-Multiport-Splitter-Extender-Black/dp/B0CD5JPV5G/ref=sr_1_20?crid=3E5E01E29CPNE&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Ie1Bw1g3RPScfK3ZvdJlPiVrt69--px9kd3CtdMTnLSR6k3NuHWVhGwt5Xvk-nIce0zn8RlJx3YC0UlseZzmNuUXgkkaTuv_xQszt7dyQD6F-P-rXTs2ZuQ1H-hkL4HoJxWT_RtJ2T7zkHudzak6b5BGo24ZvkK2_Z2dbb9XBIQUX_vSoDyiETdbwPWfxx1CLHoUO7q_wi6e4VANiNBHvpSpnAZgRwzI5UVwcydTlxs.lWW3-rNhDvu_ARfDmY3Xev9QRYG9-_BMF_O4GYJu7Tw&dib_tag=se&keywords=Powered%2B4%2Bport%2BUSB%2Bhub&qid=1726634743&sprefix=powered%2B4%2Bport%2Busb%2Bhub%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-20&th=1

 clearly has rocker switches, but I have no information on what the input voltage to the hub. There is a clearly visible DC input but no specs

So has anyone got a specific 12v powered USB hub with 4 or more ports that they can point me to that would fulfil this? With luck I can get an American friend to bring me one when he returns from the states later this month

Les

[Vinc_Vega]

Hi Les,

not a solution, but try to dive into documentation of the USB Power Delivery Standards (PD). I don't think that hubs with more than the standard 5V are easily adaptable to home made applications.

Regards, Vinc 

[No1sonuk]

Those hubs usually run on 5V, e.g. from a phone charger.

As for the other issue:  Have you considered rigging something to press the button a set time after powering on?

[lesthegrngo]

Thanks guys - I do have two USB hubs that as you point out take 5v supply, but they just don't work, whereas the Aukey 12v unit does work. I'm assuming it's power related

As for rigging up something to press the button, yes, I have idly been mulling that. Even if it is a button I have to press to activate, that would work as that could be sited on the outside of the assembly. The USB hub itself is positioned inside behind a panel where I can't get to the button which is why the need arises. If it wasn't for that I'd have moved on by now.

I was thinking maybe a little servo with a short program that cycles it once on startup, which as you say if you link the controller to the power supply it will automatically actuate. An arduino could do that but feels like a sledgehammer to crack a nut

Les 

[lesthegrngo]

I have a load of little servos and was looking into it, looks like I could make some sprung mechanical link from the servo arm to control it using the following sketch although of course this will continue to cycle because the instructions are in the loop part - ***EDIT*** I made a second sketch to change that putting the movement in the setup so it only runs once, and it works perfectly

// Include the Servo library 
#include <Servo.h> 
// Declare the Servo pin 
int servoPin = 3; 
// Create a servo object 
Servo Servo1; 
void setup() { 
   // We need to attach the servo to the used pin number 
   Servo1.attach(servoPin); 
}
void loop(){ 
   // Make servo go to 0 degrees 
   Servo1.write(0); 
   delay(1000); 
   // Make servo go to 90 degrees 
   Servo1.write(90); 
   delay(1000); 
   // Make servo go to 0 degrees 
   Servo1.write(0); 
   delay(1000); 
}

// Include the Servo library 
#include <Servo.h> 
// Declare the Servo pin 
int servoPin = 5; 
// Create a servo object 
Servo Servo1; 
void setup() { 
   // We need to attach the servo to the used pin number 
   Servo1.attach(servoPin); 
// Make servo go to 0 degrees 
   Servo1.write(0); 
   delay(1000); 
   // Make servo go to 90 degrees 
   Servo1.write(90); 
   delay(1000); 
   // Make servo go to 180 degrees 
   Servo1.write(0); 
   delay(1000); }
void loop(){ 
   
}

 

Edited September 19, 2024 by lesthegrngo

[TFS]

Under control settings, disable "hot plug" 

Another thing I did to fix my issue kinda like this, was ditch usb from the nobsound to usb in the pc, instead use the 3.5mm audio to a usb DAC. For me my nobsounds were stable, why I don't know but other people had similar experiences. The usb DAC has been perfect with zero issues since I switched. I bought ugreen dac on Amazon. 

 

[lesthegrngo]

Yeah did that, but it was windows itself that refused to see the USB devices, not DCS - thanks for the input though

Les