Moza Profiles From SME's?

[mytai01]

It would be nice if different  real world pilots could make profiles that reflect the different aircraft in DCS as they feel in real life...

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Yeah, that would be great.

I dunno, but the profiles presented are not made by SME either, afaik. I guess the one made for F-16C should have the least trouble.

BTW, don't let some learn of this thread, or there may be trouble.

 

[MAXsenna]

It would be nice if different  real world pilots could make profiles that reflect the different aircraft in DCS as they feel in real life...

What profiles?

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[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I think it is preset or something like this...

[Scott-S6]

I'm not sure how useful that would be. Human memory is not good at accurately recording sensations like that and they are very subjective to your fitness level. You would need to get current, not ex, pilots to do that 

RealSim (who make the good force sensing bases) quite regularly have retired F16 pilots tell them that the base is too stiff, it takes too much force to operate - they respond with an invitation to their workshop to compare it side by side with a real one which is twice as stiff as their consumer grade base...

For many aircraft there is public data about stick forces and measuring the forces on your stick isn't difficult. That would be the best way to do it.

[MAXsenna]

@VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants I failed to read the header.  

I don't believe this will work at all. Then SMEs will need to have the Moza, (and of course every other FFB base), make multiple profiles depending whether users have extensions or not, aaaand with different sizes obviously. 

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I think it would be beneficial to have the profile to reproduce how the stick responds to, say landing, too.

Edited December 4, 2024 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Mr_sukebe]

4 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

@VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants I failed to read the header.  

I don't believe this will work at all. Then SMEs will need to have the Moza, (and of course every other FFB base), make multiple profiles depending whether users have extensions or not, aaaand with different sizes obviously. 

 

The use of extensions will of course change the amount of force used to move or hold the stick, so agreed on that.

However, it would be great to understand whether other forces are experienced through the stick with the actual aircraft.  Of course that will depend upon the design of each aircraft, whether it’s fly by wire, hydraulic etc, eg

- transition from cruise to stall speed

- changes at high speed, during turns

- other physical things happening to the aircraft such as raising the undercarriage, lowering flaps, dropping weapons or stores etc

FFB is definitely more than just giving you a workout, and includes nuances like being able simulate a force sensing stick (as per the F16).  Couldn’t do that with a normal spring/cam based unit.

[Rosebud47]

It would be great, if there were some sense to the stick for the helicopter, when entering a vortex ring state, ground effects and transition from hovering. Regarding the shaking in the cockpit of the Huey, there seems to be quite strong forces pushing on the airframe. But if have no idea, how it is in real life.

[Mr_sukebe]

2 hours ago, Rosebud47 said:

It would be great, if there were some sense to the stick for the helicopter, when entering a vortex ring state, ground effects and transition from hovering. Regarding the shaking in the cockpit of the Huey, there seems to be quite strong forces pushing on the airframe. But if have no idea, how it is in real life.

 

Quite.  There are many forces that "might" influence feel through a stick.  I'm not a pilot, so don't know what is genuinely realistic.

[mytai01]

I'm only talking about Moza profiles because that's what I have. Obviously, there are limitations because the forces could be as high as 80 pounds of force depending on type aircraft and trim. But, that's why I'd want someone with a clue to do the profiles. Moza would have to hire pilots to help them, I guess. At least do the best they can. It's better than nothing.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

From the Discord chat, I only know that the F-16 profile is done "in-house"

[Biggus]

As I've attempted to tweak the Phantom profile over the last week, I've become less certain about things like whether the Moza software is measuring AoA in degrees (it says it is, but I suspect it's arbitrary units) and what combination of spring, damper, friction and inertia will let me retain correct AFCS engagement behavior with a heavy stick on a 200mm extension, or how to limit travel in pitch without the software creating weird curves in the background.  I think rather than having SMEs sharing profiles, we'd be better off with them sharing anecdotes about how they remember it and cross-checking that with data from studies on the control systems of the relevant aircraft.  There are too many hardware combinations to be able to reliably cut and paste from one person to another.

 

One thing that would be good would be better documentation on all the functions and how the sim responds to those functions.