Buggy Flight Controls from WSO Seat

[BomberEW]

HB,

Good evening.  Not sure if this issue has been reported before, but flying the phantom from the backseat during multicrew is buggy.  I'm trying to teach some friends the F-4 while acting as an IP from the backseat, but once control is taken from the front, a few things stand out. See the list below.

1. The aircraft is extremely sensitive in the roll axis and tends to want to fly right wing down. The aircraft overall feels very unstable in the roll axis and constant inputs to achieve wings level will result in the aircraft rolling back and forth.

2. Pitch and roll trim have no effect despite registering correctly in the controls menu.  As mentioned above, the aircraft has a tendency to want to fly right wing down, and inputting left roll trim to counteract this does nothing, or if it is working, it is prolonged and not noticeable.

3. Rudder pedals show no movement in the yaw axis despite being mapped correctly.  This translates to no movement of the rudder aside from what is mechanically linked to the other flight controls, such as moving the stick left or right will move the rudder.  When flying from the backseat, you cannot control yaw.

4. Wheel brakes do not work from the backseat despite being mapped correctly.  Upon pressing the toe brakes, the brakes are released.  I inverted the axis and the brakes ceased all functioning. I reverted to the default axis, and pressing the toe brakes removed brake pressure and the aircraft continued to taxi.

Are there any plans to adjust the flight mechanics when flying from the backseat?  As of now it feels like a completely different airplane.  Oddly similar in feeling to the F-5 in the roll axis.  This makes it difficult to demonstrate AR or smooth power and flight control inputs in the pattern. 

Thanks.

[Zabuzard]

3 hours ago, BomberEW said:

Are there any plans to adjust the flight mechanics when flying from the backseat?  As of now it feels like a completely different airplane.

You say this as if this is intended behavior. What you are reporting is new to us, sounds like a bug and we will investigate. Cheers.

That said, there are some minor differences IRL between the two sticks. The backseat for example has no force transducer on the stick.
The only technical problem currently know to us (which cant be fixed easily - but will be eventually) is that in Multicrew if flying from the back you will be flying "with lag". That is, the aircraft movement computed on the pilots computer, meaning your inputs first have to travel from your to their computer before they take effect (and the effect has to travel back to your computer again before you can react).

Can you elaborate on what you two have set in your Special Options regarding Multicrew Flight Control behavior and whether you pressed the "take control" bind? What was your and your friends ping roughly? Below 100ms?

Edited February 11 by Zabuzard

[BomberEW]

I wasn't saying this as if it was intended behavior. I just did not know if something was brought up about this before, or maybe I was missing something. There are those times where bugs are reported and it turns out that the user made a mistake.  

"Can you elaborate on what you two have set in your Special Options regarding Multicrew Flight Control behavior and whether you pressed the "take control" bind? What was your and your friends ping roughly? Below 100ms?" I will look at the special options today after work. For transferring control, I pressed the "J" key to take control and handoff control.  That worked with no issues.  Ping was unknown. I'm positive it was low as we had zero issues with lag. I will get more data and get back to you on that as well. This is the second person I've tried to fly from the backseat with and the change in handling has been consistent.  Last night was the first time I tried to do a brake check from the backseat on the ground, and that's when I noticed the issues with braking and the lack of rudder control.  

[BomberEW]

We did another test to fully answer your questions.

"Can you elaborate on what you two have set in your Special Options regarding Multicrew Flight Control behavior and whether you pressed the "take control" bind? What was your and your friend's ping roughly? Below 100ms?"

Special Options: Disable multi-crew controls input by default when joining as WSO- unchecked

Ping: 48 for me (WSO), and 41 for my friend (Pilot).  Ping remained unchanged during numerous control handovers.

Trim: Trim in pitch and roll remained inop in the backseat.

Rudder: No response in the yaw axis and brake issue mentioned in original post persists in new session. All front seat inputs normal and visible from the backseat. 

Roll: Still extremely sensitive in the roll axis from the WSO seat.  SAS system made no difference (cycled it for fun).  A curve of 6 dampened the roll sensitivity to make it feel more like the roll authority from the front seat, but this was a marginal improvement when a curve is not needed for the front seat. 

Pitch: No noticeable difference between seats (great!)

Throttle: All throttle movements and responses were correct with no issues in either seat.

Take Control Bind: "J" on keyboard.

Hope this helps.  Thank you for your assistance!

[BomberEW]

Any updates on this topic as far as bugs that are easier to fix?

Edited April 12 by BomberEW