Looking for Occulus CV1 replacement!

[Jacks]

I am looking to get back into DCS after many years away.  Previously I was using a CV1, thats how long it been!

 

I am building a new PC with the following:

Ryzen 7 9800x3D

RTX5080

64GB DDR5 RAM

2TB 980 Pro M.2 SSD

 

I remember VR in DCS being frustrating with often low frames and just when you got it tweaked and smooth, ED added some feature that tanked the FPS again!  Hopefully this rig will give me some performance overhead for a year or two.....

 

Looking at other threads it seems the main two sub-£1000 VR options are the meta Q3 and the pimax crystal light.  There seems to be mixed reviews for both and I am concerned that the lack of eye tracking on the Q3 may be a big deal breaker.  How important is eye-tracking?

 

Is it worth taking a punt now on one of these headsets or are there any new headsets on the horizon at this price point worth waiting for?

Edited April 20 by Jacks

[Tensorial_Architect]

You may want to bump that SSD up to 4 TB, ... Windows + other junk + DCS World is going to be portly.

Pimax is a bit like a cookie company where the oven does not work well. They produce tons of models but many of them are not fully baked. I dealt with them for almost five years and decided no more until the company truly improves. I have their high-end Crystal headset, ... and when it works, ... three hours a month, ... it is spectacular. However, it requires more attention than a one-month infant (I know, ... I had one of those years back ) Also, their "support" just sucks and they have lately started to engage in dodgy subscription plans. 

For your price range, I recommend you take a look at the Meta Quest Pro. You would not think to look at the specs on paper, ... the resolution seems low and it came out in very late 2022, ... but it rocks. Pancake lenses, great color, and you can FAR more easily run it at 72 Hz than you can, say, the Varjo Aero, Crystal, BigBeyond, MeganeX 8K, or Somnium Ultimate. The Quest Pro also does excellent eye tracking, which means you can combine it with MBucchia's wonderful Quad Views Foveated Rendering (this API basically renders where your eyes are looking in high detail while dialing down the periphery) giving you even more FPS. The Quest Pro also comes with high-powered hand controllers that feature their own independent tracking (they don't rely on the headset cameras a'la the Quest 3). Also, the hand tracking is so good with the Quest Pro that you will not need any of those finger pointing devices that are sometimes advertised here in the forums. (I added a special package from Github to improve the hand tracking) I can now for the first time ever, reach out with my fingers and turn a dial in the Hornet or flip a switch in the Mustang with 99% accuracy. It is that good. Finally, the Quest Pro uses the Qualcomm Snapdragon XR2+ Gen 1 SoC processor which allows for 2 x 2 Wifi 6E speed at about 1280 Mbps. It is the first headset I have ever used which allowed me to experience true wireless VR simming while joining community dogfighting servers, ... with no stuttering or lagging at 72 FPS. Of course, if you want the regular cable snaking from your desktop up into the headset, you can use the Meta Quest Link cable (buy the alternative on Amazon for roughly $12 versus the $80 Meta sells their official cable for) and run the Quest Pro tethered.

A brand new Quest Pro will run you about $800 while a great condition used one will be $400 to $500 at Ebay.

Also, since you have been gone, DCS and all the major VR headsets have switched to using Open XR. You set this from within the Meta Quest Link base software, from the DCS launch options (DCS is now fully multi-threaded without the need for you to modify the .exe parameters). You will also want to become familiar with the Oculus Debug Tool (ODT) and with Quad Views Companion (the front end for MBucchia's Quad Views). For true wireless (the Pimax Crystal Light won't do wireless), you can use the Meta Quest Link base software (which uses a technology, ... errhh, ... code, ... called "Air Link") or if you still have stutters or lagging, you can try Virtual Desktop. Air Link has been fine for me and I cut out my wireless router by using my motherboard's wireless capabilities as a wireless access point (WAP). I also heavily recommend Voice Attack, XR Neck Safer, and XR Kneeboard as well.

Edited April 20 by Tensorial_Architect

[Qcumber]

+1 for the Quest Pro. It remains a very overlooked headset but is one of the best. Particularly with regards eye tracking. It makes a massive difference in terms of performance. Forget pixel counting and comparing paper specs. Real world performance with this headset is excellent. I managed to get mine used for £300. As new condition. You might get lucky on eBay. 

 

[Jacks]

Thanks all.  I hadn't thought about using a headset wirelessly as I was concerned about latency.  I will be getting a motherboard with built-in WiFi so I could do that since I use a cable for my Internet connection.  

 

So the benefit of eye tracking is performance, not the actual functionality of eye tracking itself.  Interesting.  

For the meta Quest Pro, does it teach your hands so you can move switches by reaching out, or do you need to use a controller like on the CV1?

Edited April 20 by Jacks

[Qcumber]

7 minutes ago, Jacks said:

So the benefit of eye tracking is performance, not the actual functionality of eye tracking itself.  Interesting. 

Eye tracking can be used for Dynamic Foveated Rendering using software called Quad Views Foveated Rendering. This allows high resolution in the centre region and lower resolution in the periphery. It can give you a big improvement in performance. Some people prefer not to use it as you can sometimes notice the low Res in your peripheral vision but this can be tweaked with settings. 

10 minutes ago, Jacks said:

For the meta Quest Pro, does it teach your hands so you can move switches by reaching out, or do you need to use a controller like on the CV1?

Yes but I don't find it very useful. Others have though. 

[Jacks]

Also is it better to install dcs on.its own dedicated 2TB m.2 SSD?

[Qcumber]

4 minutes ago, Jacks said:

Also is it better to install dcs on.its own dedicated 2TB m.2 SSD?

I'm not sure how much difference it makes but that is what I do. You only really need 1 TB as you OS/boot disk. I 4 M2 PCIE slots on my motherboard so use a 500Gb for OS, a 2TB for DCS and a 1TB for other games etc. Given how big DCS is getting, and how many maps you intend to buy, 4TB is more future proof but is expensive. I have room for another 2-3 maps before I need to upgrade. 

[Tensorial_Architect]

7 hours ago, Jacks said:

Thanks all.  I hadn't thought about using a headset wirelessly as I was concerned about latency.  I will be getting a motherboard with built-in WiFi so I could do that since I use a cable for my Internet connection.  

 

So the benefit of eye tracking is performance, not the actual functionality of eye tracking itself.  Interesting.  

For the meta Quest Pro, does it teach your hands so you can move switches by reaching out, or do you need to use a controller like on the CV1?

Yep, the name of the game is getting a frame rate above 60 Hz with decent frame times. MBucchia's Quad Views API can be used with headsets that possess no eye tracking in a mode called, "Fived Foveated Rendering" (FFR) which can also be hugely beneficial. Plenty of guys who swear by their HP Reverb G2 headsets (great headset btw for its time and price) use that setup currently. The same is true for Pimax Crystal Light folks, ... FFR keeps the center sharp with lower resolution in the periphery. The great thing about the Quest Pro is that Quad Views combined with eye tracking boost the headset up over 72 Hz reliably, ... even with difficult carrier ops or the Marianas map. The eye tracking feature increases your FPS while keeping frame times below 13.8 milliseconds.

I also forgot to mention the two largest negatives of the Quest Pro. It weighs slightly more at around 700 grams (but it is better balanced than the Quest 3 or Pimax Crystal Light because they put the battery in the back). Some complain about the weight, ... ehh, ... for me, I've never noticed it to the smallest degree. Also, if you play wireless, you will only get about 2.1 hours before your unit needs to be recharged. Fortunately, the retail Quest Pro bundle comes with a very nice recharging pad for both the headset and the hand controllers. Of course, if you use the Meta Link cable, then there is no limit because it actually supplies power to the Quest Pro while you play.

The hand tracking if you leave it unmodified is, ... ehhh, ... five or six out of ten. It is "okay." However, there are two nice Github developers who have made packages for the Quest Pro that significantly bump up the ability of the headset to track your hands and fingers with no other aids (no hand controllers or need to wear finger pointing devices). The additional APIs that I have installed also use AI, and you "teach" the AI to recognize the movement of your hands in 3D space in the same manner that a speech recognition program learns to recognize your particular speech pattern. The hand tracking is so good now for the Quest Pro because of this additional code that I can reach out and twist small dials in the Hornet or punch DDI buttons with roughly 98 to 99% accuracy.

Just in the last two months, there have been several new headsets that have appeared on the market or will shortly. And they boast all kinds of high-end specs. Take the MeganeX 8K for example; On paper, ... the headset is da  s h i t z. Huge resolution, super light, etc ... In reality though, ... what are you going to get to power it over 70 Hz? You're talking almost 8K resolution. You would need an RTX 7090 or 7080 card to power that baby above 70 Hz reliably, ... and those aren't coming out until 2029. Same thing for the new Pimax Crystal Super, ... on paper, ... its great. In real life, ... you have to dial your settings in DCS down so low that water looks like crap and buildings look like Lego blocks to run it and stay 60-ish Hz or better. That is where the Quest Pro really shines, ... seems like s h i t z on paper, ... in real life though because of its lower resolution, eye tracking, great pancake lenses, and QLED displays, ... it can reliably stay above 72 Hz with every DCS setting at high and ultra.

6 hours ago, Jacks said:

Also is it better to install dcs on.its own dedicated 2TB m.2 SSD?

That is the setup I have. The additional latency from using two drives (one M.2 SSD for Windows and anther for DCS versus having them both on the same drive) is less than one millisecond. I highly recommend consider using two, 2 TB M.2 SSDs like the Samsung 990 Pro. I have this setup and it rocks. 

Edited April 20 by Tensorial_Architect

[Zligor]

4 hours ago, Tensorial_Architect said:

...have to dial your settings in DCS down so low that water looks like crap and buildings look like Lego blocks to run it and stay 60-ish Hz or better.

I thought that downsampling that new hi res headsets while not lowering ultra/high settings suppose to still bring fps above 72, and clarity should be like on low res headsets on native resolution, or even greater because of beatter displays.

Please someone tell me it's true. If it's not true, then i can stop waiting for some new generation of headsets and must buy quest pro. I was hoping for oled display and eye tracking. Something like bsb2, to just downsample it on my 4070ti super

[Tensorial_Architect]

Great question Zligor (why is that name invoking images of a 1980s science fiction B movie arch-villain in my mind?). Yes, ... you can downsample high-end VR headset displays and I have done this with the Varjo Aero, Pimax Crystal, and Somnium Ultimate. I am sure the same will apply to the BSB2 or the MeganeX 8K. The question then becomes; Is the image as good as a lower resolution headset at 100%. And the answer is, ... it depends. Usually the resulting experience will be fine and so close that your human eyes will not be able to tell a difference. Rarely though, some headsets and software combos do not play nice with being downsampled, especially if it is by a large percentage.