Pitch trim sensitivity

[captain_kaoss]

Is the pitch trim in the F-4E broken? I have a winwing F-16EX stick with pitch trim mapped to the pitch hat switch. Even a momentary press of pitch up or down causes significant change of either nose up or down attitude. It's very difficult to trim for level flight, the pitch changes are dramatic

[Zabuzard]

Is the pitch trim in the F-4E broken? I have a winwing F-16EX stick with pitch trim mapped to the pitch hat switch. Even a momentary press of pitch up or down causes significant change of either nose up or down attitude. It's very difficult to trim for level flight, the pitch changes are dramatic

This is expected and correct behavior due to the bellows vs bobweights system (as explained in depth in some similar threads already).

(Make sure you have the force feedback checkbox in the DCS settings disabled though)

There is also a Special Setting in the F4 settings to help users who have trouble with this (correct) behavior, I think it was called stick smoothing period or something like that.

The core difference to some other aircraft is that trimming in the F4 doesnt trim the stick, it "trims the bellows". The bellows apply their force dynamically based on airspeed measured at the tail (bellows intake). They pull the stick aft the faster you are. They are the opposing force to the bobweights which push the stick forward the more G-load you have. Trimming essentially scales the force the bellows decide to apply. The outcome is a highly dynamic play of forces that changes constantly and it leads to the Phantom naturally wanting to fly in large oscillations.

Test pilots also noted this as a bit annoying but ultimately decided, after a bit of tweaking on the system by the engineers, that its not a problem in practice if you "just fly the aircraft", i.e. not going hands off stick. And there is also the autopilot after all.

Also, trimming is done in micro clicks, dont hold it :)

[captain_kaoss]

I've definitely been doing micro clicks but the trim input is still dramatic. I also tried the smoothing setting and increasing the seconds but that didn't seems to change anything. Maybe its an F-4 quirk but its so difficult to trim

[Zabuzard]

If you got a video or something that would help to figure out whether what you are experiencing is normal or abnormal.

Make sure that "Use Force Feedback" checkbox in the DCS settings is unchecked, it causes super weird stick and trim behavior if you do not actually have FFB and somehow DCS has it enabled by default.

For some users their stick also sends inputs to the game longer than its actually held IRL. This would cause microclicks to actually be longer clicks. Some sticks have software where this minimal signal duration can be set and lowered (you can then also confirm it in Windows built-in Joystick input tester thing).