Demongornot Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 (edited) In my precedent post i talk about the graphic problem http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=81293 , and now, more important problem, the AI... Why its important ? One, cause actually a lot of thing that the real A10C do, we can't do it too, for example cover ground infantry under fire, DCS's AI will kill enemy or be killed without try to stay cover, example of real CAS : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3rpz-Ea2hg Here the soldier don't still where the sniper can kill him... Or if even JTAC is under fire, it will continue to make a really LOOONG attack procedure, will i think in real if i'm under enemy fire i just will ask to aircraft to strike faster than possible the enemy position and not take 5 minute under fire to make long procedure... But aircraft too have the same problem, look how attack aircraft or helicopter will proceed... Flight ahead of the target, drop the bomb and make a LOOOOOONNNNNNG turn, extremely long and quiet turn so borring, align again and do it again, that take SOOO many time and if we say "speed is life" its not for nothing, faster the objectify its completed, faster the mission its over and better it is... Look it : At 5:30 at airshow demo of ground attack, in real its really close to that and IA don't do that, but a think its really important, that can be realistic if AI do the same maneuver and drop 1 or 2 flares !!! In real life attack aircraft pilot do many time a fast turn, dive and firing gun on target and sometime don't climb before hear pull up pull up !!! from gpws And that will not hard to do, you just need to script it, that not need extreme AI... Cause AI flight with military attack and fighter aircraft like in a Boeing 747, and during attack it will still at navigation speed indicate in mission editor, but navigation and combat speed must be different, combat speed must be automatic. Or attack with bad weapon like using gun against a tank and maverick or bombs against infantry... Same for a lot of things... Like standard flight, look it : and F-15 and the two A10C "goes inverted after refueling" and its not an exception, and its a real part of flight... Hight performance take off, low flight and close flight formation its important for two things... First, IA its supposed to simulate real pilot, real military pilot never will flight so conventionally, sometime they will go crazy cause its important for the moral... And its too important for : Hight performance take off its a lot of time what pilot will do at scramble situation, low flight its important for flight under radar and same for really close flight formation, two formation of two aircraft can in enemy radar look like only two aircraft, and the surprise effect can be important, imagine two F16 go ahead to intercept 2 enemy aircraft on radar look like 2 mig 29 and, at BVR missile range F16 will not flight against 2 but 4 mig 29... More humanize IA can be important cause imagine 4 vs 4 situation, RED vs Blue, 3 blue are killed and the last still fight against 4 enemy, and, 2 more RED coming... I think real pilot will try to escape and maybe save is life, IA will try to fight and die... Another problem, IA react without any reaction time... And ground unit its a problem too, adding more unit like sniper can be important, why ? Well look that... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65AtvHFxLM0 or that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzfp1g6leY8 Sniper can really be important against ground unit in a lot of mission and can be dangerous for shopper, ground infantry too can with M4, AK74 or machine gun be a problem for low flight shopper AND aircraft, DCS A10C and Black Shark its concern... Imagine in Black Shark, we have for mission to protect ground unit, enemy sniper kill two on them, other try to find a good place for stay cover, we try to find where is the sniper, if we are so far that will be hard to see him but if we are so close we take the risk to be killed cause 50 .cal its really dangerous... Same for A10C, without the risk from the sniper, but imagine, we thing the area is clear, we make low pass for try to see friendly and hided enemy with machine gun fire at us... And soldier with anti tank weapons too its very important and can really change a lot of things in mission... More important, the combat strategy... Like dispatch and extraction : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42AxZsNsO9k Or like that or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORp9eJEoMpQ Cargo airplane deploy paratrooper and tank and low altitude tank deployment can be nice, realistic and useful to add, like the possibility for aircraft like that to land on sand, deploy unit and take off without need runway cause real military cargo its manufactured for that... Its not rare situation, i think its more common than A10C deployment, i think every aspect of combat its really important in a simulation... Who not want to make real ejecting pilot's protection mission with real helicopter extraction ? See firetruck automatically coming after crash at landing, see accident and not crash by bot stupidity, the difference against rare crosswind landing fail like in real or stall by inattention and stupid crash cause AI can't correctly follow good procedure of air waiting area over airport and do stupid collision or stupid crash at so many time... The possibility to make that : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6N4YjGPXiY without need to set friendly as invulnerable for don't see AI be killed like a stupid big immobile target... Cause actually we don't really can do a real or realistic CAS mission... Like that And a lot of example... Now imagine the possibility for ejected A10 pilot to control realistic pilot (and not a strange guy with strange movement), to try to run and escape to enemy force and ask helicopter extraction, be cover by other (AI or player in multiplayer), see friendly force if not far coming to help us on the ground and wait the shopper... Its realistic for people who need to eject and for pilot who will cover us... The possibility to see F15 (for example) take off at scramble situation in reaction of enemy aircraft enter under air space without set it in mission editor (with possibility to disable it if we want)... Civil traffic too, cause we have already civilian car and one jet, but try to not shoot, do collision or integrate in civilian air traffic for when we land (or take off) on civilian airport, or interception mission, civil aircraft its too a part of the real flight... Possibility to embody the JTAC. And a lot of things... Group and ungroup possibility, i explain, imagine the possibility for any group to be separated into multiple little group or individual unit and each follow a secondary route preprogrammed in mission editor when a trigger is activate or itself in special condition with possibility to disable that. But the must biggest advantage can be for flying formation, imagine if F15 will escort A10C, every aircraft flying in a big formation and not 2 independent formation cause any little problem (like leader turn for avoids a stupid collide or escape from a SAM) and F15 will be really far from A10C. Same for refueling, imagine formation of 4 F16 close from tanker and prepare refuel, since one of viper will begin to refuel the 3 other flying in formation with tanker with aleatory with possibility to choose : aleatory formation or designed in mission editor, same for escort of an AWACS or anything...Like that http://www.aviation-fr.info/militaire/ravito/fighters_0002.jpg possibility when 2 different squadron will refuel that all flying in formation with tanker like only one air group. Imagine 3 A10C Springfield 3-1 and Ford 6-1 and 6-2, 3-1 join 6-1&2, 3-1 its not under direct order of 6-1 and can't give order to 6-2, but 6-1&2 can aks help to 3-1 or 3-1 can ask one of 6-1 or 2 or 6-1&2 help for every objective or if A10C meet enemy aircraft he can ask help to closer F-15 formation, that will open the inter flying group communication, need assistance, help for navigation, SAM or AAA level in area (where the aircraft with who we talk is), request for rejoin formation and more. Imagine the level of realism if AI formation of transport helicopter ask in one player to kill a Shilka or if we are on the same frequency we hear formation of AH64 or A10 ask help for killing a bandit (for example) Another thing will be the possibility to take off with the wingman, the full formation of 4 aircraft or more. A Good thing with AI will be the possibility to not flying so conventionally, imagine AI F15 do an high G turn between waypoint or for join formation, the possibility to set, in mission editor speed to auto in several waypoint with desired arrival time like "between 15:23 and 15:37", and add to manual speed option like : slow speed, cruise speed, max without or with afterbutner Or AI going crazy after end of mission, like when all enemy as been killed A10C or helicopter formation flying really low, the possibility to set in mission editor altitude to auto in several waypoint, in real life pilot will profit of flight when the mission its over, imagine how many that will be funny and realistic if in turn we see like in real, the 4 aircraft of the formation turn one after one and not always together, or leader turn right and wingman left with radio order like : break formation - left and RTB. Or the best possibility, imagine in formation with wingman, we use radio option for free formation (aleatory formation adding by default and possibility to add new made by modder), imagine for example AI wingman decide to flying to our right wing, really close and beside, after several minute he decide to flying just behind and below us, really close like for confound radar signature, and we ask him fire at enemy tank with maverick, it will stay in formation (if we flying heading to target) and not leave formation, strike and back. And if he kill the enemy tank he do a victory roll with flares, that will be really nice to see that AND realistic cause real pilot do that too. The possibility to firing together, imagine radio command for: every aircraft of the formation firing missile together "firing with me", all firing when the leader open fire (with a correct delay like 1 or 2 second max), that can be nice to see and useful for synchronize attack in every SAM or AAA in one pass and realistic. And with that we can do like the formation of 5 A10C firing maverick together in the official trailer... About AI another good think will be, the possibility to be NOT the leader of the flight, imagine how that can be fun, or just realistic to be a flight element, receive order from leader AI and target with spi broadcastor, we will not need to follow another aircraft flight for do formation flight in simple player mode and that can be really useful for training flight... But a lot of things need to be added, turbulence effect when another aircraft cross us trajectory cause in real little aircraft and helicopter can be crashed by that... Just adding a drag effect, i don't ask to can see the effect on dirt, smoke, cloud and other (even if that can be extremely nice) but the effect on other aircraft its not only for fun... Please ED be the first to change things about air sim... Sorry for my bad English and the long post. Edited November 9, 2011 by Demongornot CPU : I7 6700k, MB : MSI Z170A GAMING M3, GC : EVGA GTX 1080ti SC2 GAMING iCX, RAM : DDR4 HyperX Fury 4 x 8 Go 2666 MHz CAS 15, STORAGE : Windows 10 on SSD, games on HDDs. Hardware used for DCS : Pro, Saitek pro flight rudder, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, Oculus Rift. Own : A-10C, Black Shark (BS1 to BS2), P-51D, FC3, UH-1H, Combined Arms, Mi-8MTV2, AV-8B, M-2000C, F/A-18C, Hawk T.1A Want : F-14 Tomcat, Yak-52, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, F-5E, MiG-21Bis, F-86F, MAC, F-16C, F-15E.
Speed Posted November 9, 2011 Posted November 9, 2011 Well, that's a long post, it may take me a while to get through it all... anyway, I hope to eventually improve upon one of these points. In real life, when folks start taking incoming rounds, they take cover- unless they're high on something :D But in DCS, ALL AI are "high on something". Taking incoming fire has no effect on them. Well, I do very much hope to be able to build a "weapons impacting in zone" function into Slmod, a multiplayer mod I am working on (my signature has a link to the latest version). Basically, such a function would set a flag if weapons were impacting the ground inside a zone. Any mission builders out there instantly understand the extreme utility of such a function, but for those uninitiated to the mission editor, I will explain. Such a function would allow us to accurately simulate the AI taking cover when they are under fire. So some very accurate and realisitic CAS scenarios could be built. Additionally, missions that require you to say, drop a Mk-84 and blow up some patch of ground (such as a portion of a runway or a taxiway) could be built. Other things, such as enemies who have a simulated morale and retreat after, say, you call in a B-52 carpet bombing strike nearby, could also be put into missions. A huge variety of things, really. Anyway, the main challenge to such a function is being able to make it run in real time, calculating or finding weapon impact points, sometimes for hundreds of projectiles, without slowing the hosting computer down. I am not yet sure if it can be done. I will certainly be trying, however. I am 90% sure I can make it work for missiles, bombs and rockets. Anyway, so for some of your wish list items, some of us in the modding and mission building community hope to provide you satisfaction sooner rather than later. Anyway, one of the many things I find myself wishing is that the AI "had a soul". Undoubtably, the AI radio system is a huge improvement to DCS, but the way it is right now, they'll say, in near monotone, stuff like: "Enfield 11, splash bandit at bulls 090 for 110." Or, "Enfield 11, member down at bulls 045 for 63." Yawn. I'd like to hear them scream over the radio stuff like "EJECTING! EJECTING!" Or, "ENFIELD 13, SAY STATUS!" "ENFIELD 13, RESPOND!" followed perhaps a minute later by a call (in a shaky voice) "Chalis, Enfield 1, I think we lost Enfield 13, his last known posit bulls 045 for 63, no chute spotted". SOMETHING like that. Something with soul. No more monotone "splash bandit bulls XXX for XXX. Replace it with "CHALIS, ENFIELD 11, KILL BANDIT BULLSEYE 060 FOR 91!" Anyway, it's just a thought. I love that we have a radio system that the AI now talks on, but like anything, it could always be better, and adding a little soul into it would certainly be an enhancement. Real pilots are not robots that talk in monotone. Also, different voices would be nice too. Heck, ED could probably get free volunteer voice actors very easily, from either the test team or even the general community. Intelligent discourse can only begin with the honest admission of your own fallibility. Member of the Virtual Tactical Air Group: http://vtacticalairgroup.com/ Lua scripts and mods: MIssion Scripting Tools (Mist): http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=98616 Slmod version 7.0 for DCS: World: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=80979 Now includes remote server administration tools for kicking, banning, loading missions, etc.
Demongornot Posted November 9, 2011 Author Posted November 9, 2011 I have listen before posting my long post a lot of sound cause the problem with no monotone sound is a bad voice effect like Enfield 2!!! 0 ENGAGE that ENEMY tank from NORTH, exactly like what we hear from Arma 2, its extremely bad, example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oib-3bd_q_k The solution can be to add more voice or multiple prerecorded thing like for heading record many time every heading 085 095 138 179 258 298 336 359 same for altitude and more... I agree but that will be worst than everything if the voice become like Arma 2... Anyway when DCS will include various ground unit for player control (cause DCS want mean Digital Combat Simulator and not Digital Air Combat Simulator), maybe on day we can have tank SAM, boat and soldier and more... For the moment just the possibility to control pilot can be nice, imagine, like combat helo, the possibility to get out our KA50 or A10C, walk around and more... Possibility to add ground crew with nice advanced animation (cause if its not better than actual AI soldier animation, its useless), maybe too, the possibility to see them help us for installation in cockpit like in real with great animation and good pilot body... And in my long post i have too forget to say : the possibility to choose one by one what we want during rearm cause a lot of time we want custom payload but we don't find what we want... Why not like combat helo the possibility to choose it outside the cockpit or just with radio communication, like every one want, and see ground crew really load it... CPU : I7 6700k, MB : MSI Z170A GAMING M3, GC : EVGA GTX 1080ti SC2 GAMING iCX, RAM : DDR4 HyperX Fury 4 x 8 Go 2666 MHz CAS 15, STORAGE : Windows 10 on SSD, games on HDDs. Hardware used for DCS : Pro, Saitek pro flight rudder, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, Oculus Rift. Own : A-10C, Black Shark (BS1 to BS2), P-51D, FC3, UH-1H, Combined Arms, Mi-8MTV2, AV-8B, M-2000C, F/A-18C, Hawk T.1A Want : F-14 Tomcat, Yak-52, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, F-5E, MiG-21Bis, F-86F, MAC, F-16C, F-15E.
Demongornot Posted November 18, 2011 Author Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Actually AI don't have any combat tactic, i wish the possibility to add AI comportment script (with why not the possibility for everyone who know scripting do it) for optimized AI comportment and do, like i have say, better attack flight procedure, improve collision detection, humanize it with random mistake (sometime cause crash) like real, goes "crazy" like EVERY PILOT with low altitude flying, break formation, formation flight strike, more formation and free formation for AI and possibility to command player cause DCS its a flight simulator and not a squadron command simulator and everything can help a lot if one day ED do dual seat aircraft for flight with GOOD AI cause actual its really bad and if we be at rear seat inside F-15 (for example) and we see AI pilot flying like a 747 pilot...that will bored everyone... IA Script can change a lot of thing and open a lot of doors for DCS simulation, military version too... This video show a true exercise And this video too And we can see good things like 2 A10C act like that : Possibility to script a lot of true air strike, dogfight, bombing and other realistic attack like real. Script for improve weapon use and don't see AI bot using Mk84 in a single car and after waste the bomb do gun run on a tank... See IA in convoy strike first destroy anti aircraft vehicle and stay far and after strike the convoy. Possibility to set in mission editor free (or auto) airspeed and altitude for strike phase for example and see A10 drop JDAM from FL 150 or FL 200 and after dive, at middle altitude firing AGM65 and at low altitude using NGB like Mk 82 or CBU 95/97 with gun run or other good tactic and not a suicidal attempt... Please give us the possibility to simulate the REAL LIVE and not to simulate a procedure book... Edited November 18, 2011 by Demongornot CPU : I7 6700k, MB : MSI Z170A GAMING M3, GC : EVGA GTX 1080ti SC2 GAMING iCX, RAM : DDR4 HyperX Fury 4 x 8 Go 2666 MHz CAS 15, STORAGE : Windows 10 on SSD, games on HDDs. Hardware used for DCS : Pro, Saitek pro flight rudder, Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog, Oculus Rift. Own : A-10C, Black Shark (BS1 to BS2), P-51D, FC3, UH-1H, Combined Arms, Mi-8MTV2, AV-8B, M-2000C, F/A-18C, Hawk T.1A Want : F-14 Tomcat, Yak-52, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, F-5E, MiG-21Bis, F-86F, MAC, F-16C, F-15E.
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