SARH only F-15 - your tactics

[GGTharos]

1) Another thing I didn't ask about were the jammers. I know that the ALQ-135's specs are classified for the most part, but does the F-15 maintain a good enough ECM defense vs. a Flanker at BVR ranges in this game to give itself an advantage?

 

Maybe in real life. Forget about it in-game, burn-through tends to occur before or at SARH useful range.

 

2) I also read the manual for more things I could scrounge up, and it stated that flying faster meant that your missile would have more energy, but I've read more than one post in these forums stating that the game does NOT take the launch platform speed into account with regards to missile launch speed. So now I'm a little confused. What's the truth?

 

Right, currently the missile physics are such that launch speed is not taken into account, so maintain best speed for maneuvering for your plan of action.

[Exorcet]

ECM can be a tricky thing in FC. I usually won't use it while going offensive unless I'm trying to prevent an F-15 from using TWS or while I'm getting up close to a bandit who has a friend farther out who might try to pick me off BVR while I'm dealing with the first guy.

 

Most of my ECM use is while I'm returning from combat (I do this to be a big annoying distraction for the other side) or while I'm trying to position myself in BVR between 30 and 50 nm range against someone who already knows that I'm there. When it comes time to shoot missiles though, ECM usually goes off.

[SgtPappy]

Right, currently the missile physics are such that launch speed is not taken into account, so maintain best speed for maneuvering for your plan of action.

 

Well that's very very lame. Exorcet, thanks for the information regarding the ECM and your experience with it.

 

I suppose the only real thing I've got going for me vs. a Flanker is climb rate (which I'll use to increase missile range), a super reliable radar and a radar-slaved AIM-9 capability. If worst comes to worst, I'll try to snipe him just WVR with a head-on radar-slaved Sidewinder, which I have found very difficult to dodge in the Flanker if I'm flying HO at an F-15.

[GGTharos]

There are other tactics you can use, but without going into that - I wouldn't worry too much about the missile range based on speed. The flanker could do the same right back to you after all, so in these 1v1's the only time it really matters is if you are in some sort of ambushing position or otherwise you have the initiative.

 

1v1 is ok for learning some BVR but it's very limited.

[SgtPappy]

Yes, I understand that the Su-27 can definitely do the same thing back, but AFAIK, the F-15C is pretty much faster at all altitudes, especially at high alts (with no tanks on of course). So it would have been a nice advantage nonetheless. Coupled with altitude, the speed would be at least slightly helpful to my missile.

 

I've got one of my buddies set up, and we practised basic controls and weapons operation last night. I'm going to round up at least two more gents to practise team tactics BVR.

[104th_Maverick]

Pappy....

 

Try rather than climbing to get 'range' for your missile... climb for 'speed'

 

Two very different approaches here and once you understand more about using your jet you will realize why.

 

As you mentioned the higher you are the faster your missile will travel, so you want to be HIGH and FAST before you fire. But DONT fire at RMAX just because your High and Fast..... wait until the very last moment that you feel comfortable with to fire (you ll get better at this with experience).

 

This means your missiles are going to leave the rail at the best possible speed and reach your bandit with the greatest possible velocity.... Simply by 'waiting' to fire your increasing your chances of PK because the missile will have more speed (cash) to spend as it gets closer to the bandit.

 

Firing from RMAX should ONLY be done to force a bandit to start doing something. If you kill anyone with an RMAX shot.. its not because you were good.. its because they were crap.

Any shots over 20nm should be primarily utilized for getting people to 'do something' the opposite of do something is to keep flying straight towards you... and sometimes we don't want that.

Never rely on a RMAX or 20+nm shot to save your life... most of the time it won't.

You need to look at these shots as tools that are available in your arsenal to start 'taking control' of the BVR fight.

Your killing shots come from inside 15nm, ideally you want to be as close to 10nm as possible before firing a 'kill shot'

 

The Holy Grail is 8nm or less

 

This is because 8nm is the range (approx) the 120C goes active off the rail... so with a little consideration of how you can take advantage of this and some practice... you'll start seeing results fast!

 

Maverick

[SgtPappy]

I appreciate the help. I usually launch Sparrows at about 18 nm, then another closer if they start wasting energy.

 

Of course, this now requires defensive tactics if they decide to launch early. I'd really rather not waste my own energy if they try to get me to do something, and I don't want to be close in range to start notching, because the probability that they lose lock is less when I'm closer. Like you said though, long range shots are going to have a low Pk, so I suppose it'd be best not to panic and waste energy. Instead, press on with getting closer for a shot.

[104th_Maverick]

With experience comes the ability to decide when notching is a good idea or not.

 

'Genrally' speaking I will notch all shots on me that are fired from outside 15nm, and then at some point (depending on lots of things) I will TURN BACK into him.

 

Remember he only gets Launch Authorization based on the fact that when he fired you were flying towards him. If you notch for x amount of time the likelihood is the missile CANNOT reach you... it doesn't have the legs. An Aim120 or any missile for that matter (apart from the Aim54) cannot fly for more than 15-20 miles and still have enough cash (speed) in the bank to achieve a high PK.

 

What I mean by this is not what some are thinking right now... I mean that if you were to launch an Aim120 in a straight line on NO TARGET it would travel very quickly for the first 5-10 miles or so but after that it's energy starts to go through the floor as there is nothing left in the motor.

 

Try to remember that when someone is firing on you from 15-20 miles. Basically if you keep flying straight towards him the missile only has to travel between 7-10 miles to get to your aircraft (very simple general example, I know the physics is more complicated) because you are still flying towards him. It does not have to travel the full 15-20 miles instead... its going to meet you somewhere in the middle.

 

If you notch.

 

You are no longer getting closer to him, even though he is getting closer to you.

So this means HIS missile WILL HAVE to travel the full 15-20 nm to reach you. Obviously if you stayed in the notch there is no way the missile would reach you at all, its important you understand why this is.

 

But as you correctly pointed out... staying in the notch WONT save you when he gets to WVR.

You need to practice, practice, practice with your buddy there to get enough experience to know WHEN to turn into him and fire back. This becomes much MUCH easier when you start to fully understand the advantages of using TWS and the Aim120..... once you have this understanding....

Notching someone until he gets to around 10-15nm then turning into him even though he has already fired on you..... isn't as stupid as it sounds!

 

Good luck!

 

note:

Not saying you meant it to sound like this but just want to clarify one thing... never think of notching as losing energy. Instead... try to think of notching as if you were a Cobra or any type of snake that coils up then STRIKES!!!!

 

Thats the Eagle notch sir.... your coiling up like the snake (notching) saving your energy or generating more so when your target gets close enough you can STRIKE and BITE HIM IN THE FACE!

Edited June 13, 2012 by [Maverick]

[SgtPappy]

Alright, that sounds encouraging. I suppose I never really thought hard enough to realize that notching didn't necessarily involve energy loss. I'll try it your way first and see how it works out. It always seems like a game of chicken.

 

Did you happen to have some tracks on you? Perhaps I could watch some of what you're doing and dissect tactics.

 

Thanks!