Philip Mongeon

Thank you for taking the time to write it all up. Super appreciative. The missions i created all start flawlessly using the following: - WW2 bomber element height separation - 4 planes per flight - Big formation setting : Combat box for open formation - all flights are configured in Lead-Right-Left-Back and in the right position in relation to the lead flight. - carpet bombing is chosen. the carpet bombing waypoint is set at least 10 miles out and the next waypoint is set at least 5 miles after the target. The issue i'm facing is that in a straight line, they start off perfectly in formation, then, out of the blue, one flight will start trailing, sometimes it will also start slipping inwards towards the rest of the flights, either causing mid air collisions, or causing the other flights to start moving away. From there, things will deteriorate. I also tried reducing the flight to 3 units. It seems to reduce the risk of mid airs, naturally, since there are less planes, but other than that, formation slippage and trailing still occurs, erratic flying still occurs and it seems that after bomb drop, the flights will tend to forget their original place in the big formation configuration and start moving around willy nilly, often causing more mid airs as they try to occupy a position in the big formation that is occupied by another flight, adding to the mystery of where they are actually getting the information to switch spots. i do not have formation side switching enabled, i have reaction to threat set to no reaction. originally i thought it might have to do with losing the entire lead flight to AAA, but even with no enemy fire, the behavior remains the same throughout countless missions i've created. I even downloaded a mission that was meant as a formation guideline. There are 16 flights of 2 B17s per flight, flying in a straight line through 6 waypoints. The flights eventually trail and lose positioning. Upon the first waypoint that demands a change in heading, big formation becomes big chaos. So it's not something specifically to what i am doing. Nor is it computer specific as i sent a mission file to a buddy and he experiences the same behavior. He also experiences it on his created missions. I understand that ED aims for total immersion and realism, but i feel like mission creation could be somewhat simplified. While it may appeal to some, the overall complexity and granularity, i think it steers away a considerable consumer base that love flight simulators but couldn't be bothered with the complexity of DCS.

has anyone else noticed this ? Using DCS steam edition all DLCs purchased through steam also.

@Mr_sukebe What were your formation settings ? were you using big formation WW2 bomber element height separation ?

Ok guys, seriously! I have a few questions : 1. Why, when we create a plane object, and then increase the number to 2 or 3 or 4... shouldn't the LEAD plane be, oh i don't know, THE LEADER? why do the planes get added IN FRONT of the lead plane ? no matter the orientation, no matter how many waypoints it has, all additional planes get placed AHEAD of the lead plane. "follow the leader, leader, leader, follow the leader" is how it goes, not "ahead of the leader, leader, leader, ahead of the leader".... 2. how come when we create a formation, using DCS "pre configured" variables(ww2 bomber element), do we get formation deterioration ? ( see track aptly named FORMATION DETERIORATION at 0631). You have to appreciate the frustration given the price tag of DCS and its DLCs. The fact that getting planes to fly in formation in a straight line seems to be a bit too much to ask...and you know what? Maybe i'm doing it wrong... but i tried different variations and having a LEAD group with all others follow it using the BIG formation variables: LEADER = LEAD-RIGHT-LEFT-BACK, RIGHT = LEAD-RIGHT-LEFT-BACK, LEFT = LEAD-RIGHT-LEFT-BACK, BACK = LEAD-RIGHT-LEFT-BACK totaling 64 planes, in a "diamond 4 formation". AND YES, every group of 4 has flight options set on the group, + 1 waypoint to give it a heading (previous mistake of mine that you guys corrected me on). Also, it makes no difference if the elements have 2, 3 or 4 planes, the mysterious slowing down occurs regardless. group formation setting : WW2 Bomber Element Height Separation at the start of the mission, formation is somewhat elegant (excessive gap between LEADER group and RIGHT/LEFT/BACK, but at this point, it's the least of the issues. So all 64 planes are headed in the same direction, at the same speed, aiming for the same target. BARELY 1 minute in flight, we start seeing formation deterioration... WHYYYY!!!????? we have the RIGHT group's LEAD squadron that starts to slow down... By the time we arrive at the target and bombs away, you guessed it, it's right over the back squadron... KABoom! Keep in mind that all groups of 4 were copy paste from the same group. The only things that changed were the positions in the formation. So where is it getting the mysterious information to SLOWDOWN when all other groups are maintaining speed ? After this considerable loss of assets and bomb release, maintaining formation is completely impossible. planes start doing rolls, they go in a whatever direction they want, can't maintain altitude, do spin rolls as if they were Extra300 aerobatic planes. climb a few thousand feet only to descend back smashing right in another group(which the crippled planes will for some reason salvo a complete bomb load even though bombs have already been dropped) although this might be sim options related(possibly unlimited ammo),... I mean, if 64 planes in a straight line is too much, maybe prevent users from doing so. The only way i found how to achieve as high as 128 planes flying without a single mid-air collision is by MANUALLY plotting EACH group of 4's' waypoints 1 by 1. it was so time consuming that i questioned the worth of DCS at this point. But after spending over 1000$ on DCS and addons, DLCs, planes, etc, and have something as simple as straight line formation flight be so poorly coded, yeah.. i feel robbed! many other flight sims have no issues, yet, the MOST expensive flight simulator available to the consumer public just can't seem to properly code formation flight for AI planes!!!! IN A STRAIGHT line! we haven't even addressed the clusterF*** that ensues if we dare try to make the formation make GRADUAL turns that span over hundreds of miles just to achieve a 180. DCS_not_able_to_fly_in_simple_formation.trk Formation_deterioration_starting_at_0631.trk

Maybe i'm configuring something really wrong, but i just can't see what configuration could possibly enable an entire wing of bombers to break formation and bounce around like houseflies on crack! The flight model becomes completely unrealistic, some start doing full rolls, pitch down a few 1000's feet and then climb right back up, of course crashing into everything in it's path. The attached track has 2 wings of bombers. right up to bomb release, they move perfectly harmoniously.... Then... Bombs away! and holy s**t, watch the flight model deteriorate progressively about 20 miles after bombs away!. It's really taking all the realism out of DCS, so i'm really hoping i configured something completely wrong like an idiot... because if i didn't, i just don't understand what the heck is happening LOL. Also, is there a config anywhere that would have AI try a bit harder to actually land, even if slightly damaged ? I mean, 1 engine out, and it belly lands ON THE runway, missing elevator ? belly land ON the runway... shot up nose cone? well that one definitely merits and nose dive crashing into houses. LOL. I find the AI in formation and big formation very unrealistic and in desperate need of fine tuning. Take landing for example, if you have more than 2 groups of 4 planes landing at the same airfield, most times, they will circle around endlessly, then do a climb out and fly away. i had one group fly around the map for almost 6 hours, eventually all running out of fuel. There should be an inherent order of landing, be it most damaged/wounded first, then followed by group #, then plane #. Even if it's not dead on historically accurate, it sure beats not even trying to land at all! Bombing_grp_acting_like_retarded_houseflies_after_bombdrop.trk

To be honest and as others have pointed out, your specs are very low. DCS is quite heavy for a simulator even on newer hardware. The Phenom processor was never really meant for high end gaming, adding to the fact that the Phenom platform is well over 15 years old. This means that you are limited to DDR3 memory Also, the 1070 chip has an inherent issue with newer texture formats, such as vectoring and dynamic fluid engines. you can pick up a fairly inexpensive Ryzen 7 computer that will be a night and day difference. Personally, i'm using a lower end spec'ed computer : AMD Ryzen7 5700g 64GB DDR4 RTX3060 i picked up the computer for 300$CAD. these are my settings. All this to say, while the Phenom processor was great in its day, those days are long past. null

here is the uncompressed log dcs.log

as requested however, all the zip files show as being invalid dcs.log-20240929-013135.zip

whenever i try the generate fast mission for the spitfire, wether i select CAS, fighter sweep, escort, intercept.... it always generates the same thing.... opel trucks, a few german tanks and 2 fw190s... NO MATTER what i choose, it always generates this

Yeah, what i found though is that its not the amount of planes. Where it bogs down performance is the rendering of the numerous ground fires subsequent to the bomb blast. I ran a test and had the same flight drop bombs in the middle of nowhere and performance only dipped slightly.

I think we can all agree that DCS is an incredible software and amazing work has been done with regards to the damage model. On that note, how involved would it be to have the AI damage model values user customizable. I think it is the overall general consensus that the AI flight and damage models feel somewhat " artificial and procedural". example: The B17 current model has the crew bail out with 1 engine out. This most certainly shouldn't be. Also, The B17 is very quick to go up in fuel flames with minimal machine gun fire (NOT cannon rounds). I think the ability to user define AI's flight behavior as well has the damage model's "probability ratios" could address the discontent that some have... Perhaps in the damage log on screen if we had a more detailed messages instead of just " enemy aircraft damaged".... which component was damaged? This would allow the user to know if he struck a fatal shot or if the plane is going down for what appears to be minor gunfire. Keeping the user "in the know" could very well address the damage model questions.

This started happening since the last update. Whenever there's the visual effects of a bomb blast (b17 only at time of writing), the game crashes. I found this to be occuring IF: - i'm in the 3rd person (F2 view) - using the F7 ground unit viewer and a bomb detonates within a few hundred meters of it. Before this last update, i would literally zoom out of a ground unit and watch a carpet bombing run happen without a so much as a glitch...big FPS drop though, but it's to be expected when 96 B17's are unleashing hell and all i have to watch it on is a Ryzen 7 5700G, RTX3060 and 64GB of ram... yes, i know, long overdue for an upgrade LOL Has anyone else noticed game crashes since update ?

Good evening all you fine pilots I'm not sure where this thread should go so please move if it's in the wrong spot. I don't know if many are like me when it comes to DCS... I drool over the platform as a whole, but sometimes, i just dread the time involvement requirement just to create a semi-decent mission just to pop off a few rounds in the WW2 theatre. Is there a thread with user created missions, more precisely, WW2 Theatre?

can i ask you to check something ? The mission file i attached here. if you select a ground unit (F7) and back off until you see the whole area about to get carpet bombed.... Does DCS crash shortly after the bombs start dropping ? 7x4hex bombgroup.miz

look at these beautiful bombers all headed in the same direction!!!! Thank you very much good sir! :)))))

I have tried starting every group of 4 with 3 waypoints "en route" then have them all merge onto the big formation way point of the lead groups. the result was the same, but i will try again in case i messed something up the first time, which is more than likely i'll attach a new mission file sometime after the kids head to bed tonight side note... has ED made any progress on getting the flak cannons to actually be useful ? even with a KDO, i just have a bunch of flak cannons point up at the sky and say "Ohh look an airplane!" then go back to sleep LOL

here is a mission file where you can see the mentioned "circle around". If it wasn't for this maneuver at the very start, most if not all bombers would make it to target. To reduce the complexity, i remove one entire bomber group as well as all enemy flights 7x4hex bombgroup.miz

i will post it shortly. what i have noticed using DCS moving map is that each flight will perform an unrealistic 180 degree turn and realign with the waypoint. when i say unrealistic, i mean, within 500ft. i understand what you mean...IT SHOULD. but if it worked as intended, then why when i place a single plane, add its waypoints(which should now have redirected the flight in the proper direction), then i add 3 planes to it (by using the little arrows to add planes to the flight), all subsequently added planes are added IN FRONT of the lead plane instead of aft., EVEN with the formation option properly set. Example: single plane created, 3 waypoints in a straight line pointing south, formation option set to "bomber element height separation". then i add the 3 planes and boom! lead plane is now at the rear of that bomber element. This results in the entire bomber element having to do a 180 degree turn so the lead plane can be at the lead where its meant to be..

This is what i mean. The waypoint was created BEFORE i added the other planes to the flight... now the Leader becomes the tail, regardless of my efforts to counter this.

So i'm having an issue where i'm creating a small test mission. 8 groups of 4 B-17s headed over Dunkirk for a carpet bomb raid. So i setup my 8 "singles" in a big formation of 2 box groups where the leader of box 2 follows the tail of box 1. even before i duplicate each single to its 4max planes per group, when i start the mission, they are always headed north west (about 340). Even with waypoints set, if i add planes to its group, the lead plane becomes the tail end. There is NOTHING i can do to change the initial orientation of the flight. I mean, i can add waypoints to this mission until i'm blue in the face, they always start pointing the wrong way. I even tried having all units cross 2 waypoints before joining at waypoint 3 and 4 to begin the assembly of the big formation..they still start off pointing the wrong way. Any thoughts ? there's no heading dial like the ground units.

Good morning all, No matter what i do in the mission editor, i just cannot get the planes to behave... well... like airplanes!!!!! Here's my mission details. total of 20 B17s flying over the channel to go drop their payload on Dieppe harbor/port. I configure each box of 4 to fly in whatever formation (line abreast for some reason has them trailing each other instead of flying next to each other and yes the initial "trail formation flag was modified on all airplanes"). Once the 5 groups of 4 are configured to fly in a formation on their own, i then set up a waypoint to initiate BIG formation. I proceed to configure the pattern according to their desired position in each wing/group... To test my formation configuration, i just setup a waypoint down the map and test my config. No matter what configuration i use, i always have a few groups that fly like straight up drunkards! can't maintain formation, random altitude changes, not respecting the pattern selected. Keep in mind, there are NO threats on the map yet! But even though there are no threats, i made sure to set threat response to "NO REACTION". My question is, where in all of the DCS coding could these boxes of planes have gotten the idea to go from 10,000ft to 7,000ft in a 90degree roll slide dive (distance to achieve the altitude change was ZERO), and then fly backwards while climbing not to 10,000ft, nooooo! 9,378ft, then... you guessed it!!!! slam into each other. None of this makes any sense since they are flying in a straight line..... PS> i realize there isn't a track file attached. I'm working on getting you one... i sort of "editor rage quit" this morning LOL

So i've been reading a lot about the german flak being very inconsistent and temperamental in DCS. I seem to be having the issue of being either too dumb to figure out the mission editor or being too dumb to figure out the mission editor lol. No matter what "trigger options" i use, i just can't get ANY of the flak gun models to engage enemy air units. With or without a KDO.G. I also don't see why the mission editor needs to be that complicated. I understand the granular aspect of it, but it seems to me that certain assumptions could be made. for example: If user deploys enemy AAA on map during mission building... chances are user wants the damn gun to fire at enemy units. LOL Now my question is, is there any kind of template with the needed options to get german AAA to fire available from DCS that we can overlay on our missions during editing ? I mean.... DCS is awesome, but if the devs can't figure out german AAA in their editor and provide a solution... shouldn't this be .... i dunno, a "lets fix this ASAFP" bug ?

Yes i am. However, im noticing it on all flyable WW2 aircrafts. I can literally have a mid air collision, see the enemy aircraft plummet, yet my aircraft, missing one wing, the tail section is still flying normally. I think it might an obscure setting that maintains flight caracteristics regardless of structural integrity. I will attach a new track file as soon as i can.

will do thank you

P51 losing tail section, yet maintains elevator functions. @NineLine p51 tail gone.trk