FlightControl

@ED, Some friends have advised me to hold the development on the forest and village zones los problems, since these are likely to be resolved in future maps. So, NTTR, has LOS on trees. Will other maps have LOS on trees also and will the caucasus map eventually also have tree and villages incorporated in LOS detection?

Hello Redglyph, Yes and no. If you know those frameworks, then i think you know what they provide and do, good for you! But I get your view on DCS. Yes, it has limitations, many. However, DCS is still a fantastic simulator, isn't it? The DCS is however not limited, just, there are things that people would like to see added, no? - Which task an AI is doing at the moment? - Control unit machinery (like open close cargo bays). - Control lighting on units. - Shut down and Start engines. - Be able to move AI ground units separately from the group. - Better control of airport safety regulations - ....... Shall i continue? And lua predicates, if you think that is a problem; who still needs that? Some lines of code hidden deeply in your mission file? There are other ways of dealing with lua code in missions: Frameworks: 1 mission lua file contains all. No triggers in your miz files No lua predicates in your miz files No waypoint lua code in your miz files No configuration of options etc on waypoints, but dynamically set. Copy/paste code Upgrade, release ... Not saying that goal is achieved today 100%, but getting there... Every release of the framework is a step closer to that goal. So, I understand what you're saying, and you're probably a good lua coder too, but had to read behind the lines to get that context. Just an additional question, you find LUA an awkward language. What is not an awkward language according to you? May I remind you that LUA is the de-facto standard in the gaming industry for scripting? FC

With lua you can do a lot in DCS. It opens up a new world for you in mission design. There are a couple of lua frameworks that you can use and these will accelerate your lua development. Example are MIST, MOOSE, .... On top there are many scripts available made by skilled flight simulator enthousiasts that you can use. I really advise you check on some of these frameworks. I leave it up to you which one you prefer. To close this post, LUA is a fantastic scripting language and it opens up the power of DCS. Don't underestimate what is available out there by the community if you are open for something new. Fc

No raytracing. Ray casting. Basically what is done is to test if the "observation" vector between the recce and the target is "touching" one of the edges on one of the polygons that are in the bounding box of that observation vector. If it finds a hit, I know the object may be invisible. Of course, an efficient and slick algorithm is needed to do that testing, so the fastest and least CPU invasive way. Trying to keep it as simple as possible, and as efficient as possible. If you're interested, get on slack and we can further discuss it. It is interesting stuff to make. Sven

Hi Shagrat, That is exactly what i did in the early prototype demo test mission :-) Drew a polygon around the forest area, but about 5 to 10 meters (some more) distance from the forest border... Note that if you would put the vehicles at the back outside of the forest, they would become "visible", although in real life you wouldn't see them. For that a ray casting algorihm is in the make (=not so easy as one would think from the first sight). I underestimated the complexity a bit, but still. Working on it. Trying to get a simple model in place, not an accurate to life forest visibility simulation. But something that works better for most that what DCS provides out of the box, and it may dissatisfy some. We have to keep in mind: DCS world runs on 1 CPU which is already overloaded with a complete simulation, and on top this logic ... Sven

Grimes, I understand the viewpoint and reasoning. However, please don't misunderstand my post. Reading behind the lines, the post I wrote earlier was coming from many voices in the community and was trying to support them with this communication. The post was not only for the code i wrote myself and to support my own ambitions. It was meant to help users. Sven

Tree height Any view on what assumptions i take as the default height of the bounding box around a "forest" area? 3m, 2m, 5m?

@grimes +1. Thanks! It us clear now. Ib was under the impression the max distance for trucks was 150, but now it is 200.

@grimes, interesting feedback. As an add-on to what you explained, what kind of warehouses can be used? And what is the range the warehouse needs to be close to the rearming units? And does the range apply for the group or unit? If group, does the whole group need to be in range? I know of the trucks, but there are many trucks. Which trucks for which coalition? Been diving into the dcs code, and it seems there are more truck types that can be used... Having these questions already for a long time...

@yugon: Understood and deleted the screenshot. Sry

AI having perfect 360° view? Will check that... I was under the impression it didn't for some unit types.

Suddenly the points have gone up :D 1629 point(s) total Fc

Sams like an SA-6 seems to reload automatically I once tested.

Of course. This is not EDs "mistake" if we can call it this way... Thanks for pointing that out.

DCS does not model vector ray casting between trees and villages. A simple model is being created that tries to mitigate these issues. I try to keep the factors easy and understandable. Keeping it simple...

Currently in development is a detection class that triggers an event upon detection. That event can be catched in an event handler. See the following demo script. --- -- Name: DET-120 - Detection Probability Zones -- Author: FlightControl -- Date Created: 04 Feb 2017 -- -- # Situation: -- -- Demonstrates the DistanceProbability factor during the detection of units. -- A forest zone has been declared that stimulates invisibility while those units drive in the forest. -- -- Two Recce are detecting 4 units, which are located in a forest. -- The first Recce has no Zone probability set in the forest. -- The second Recce has a Zone Probability set. -- -- # Test cases: -- -- 1. Observe the reporting of both the first and second Recce. The second should report slower the detection than the first. -- 2. Eventually all units should be detected by both Recce. Especially when the units drive out of the forest. -- 3. Each detection results in an event being called. local RecceSetGroup1 = SET_GROUP:New():FilterPrefixes( "Recce 1" ):FilterStart() local RecceSetGroup2 = SET_GROUP:New():FilterPrefixes( "Recce 2" ):FilterStart() local HQ = GROUP:FindByName( "HQ" ) local CC = COMMANDCENTER:New( HQ, "HQ" ) local RecceDetection1 = DETECTION_UNITS:New( RecceSetGroup1 ) local RecceDetection2 = DETECTION_UNITS:New( RecceSetGroup2 ) local ForestZone = ZONE_POLYGON:New( "ForestZone", GROUP:FindByName( "ForestZone" ) ) RecceDetection2:SetZoneProbability( { { ForestZone, 0.1 } } ) -- Set a 10% probability that a vehicle can be detected within the forest. RecceDetection1:Start() RecceDetection2:Start() --- OnAfter Transition Handler for Event Detect. -- @param Functional.Detection#DETECTION_UNITS self -- @param #string From The From State string. -- @param #string Event The Event string. -- @param #string To The To State string. function RecceDetection1:OnAfterDetect(From,Event,To) local DetectionReport = self:DetectedReportDetailed() HQ:MessageToAll( DetectionReport, 15, "Detection 1 - No Zone Probability" ) end --- OnAfter Transition Handler for Event Detect. -- @param Functional.Detection#DETECTION_UNITS self -- @param #string From The From State string. -- @param #string Event The Event string. -- @param #string To The To State string. function RecceDetection2:OnAfterDetect(From,Event,To) local DetectionReport = self:DetectedReportDetailed() HQ:MessageToAll( DetectionReport, 15, "Detection 2 - Forest Zone Probability" ) end garbagecollect() Trying to release this next week... To check some of the magic fingers, see my signature... Sven

Me too, but was just wondering how it worked and what drives it.

1587 point(s) total

I think I understand it... The people who have me reputation are having low reputation on this forum. Got a lot of reps, but the points did not go up. So receiving a rep from somebody with a high reputation boosts the points, while helping out low rep members and receive a rep provides less of an impact... So this rep system seems to promote the chosen ones. Isn't novice people helping out a humble thing in a forum? How is that rated? Just asking (I may step on some toes here with this comment, I know)

Shagrat, In the moose slack channel func-detection, I posted 2 demo missions, including the script api usage. Have a look :-) missions can he run without installing anything... Fc

Sorry for waking, but... How are points earned?

Hi bushmanni, Thanks for your answer. The many parameters you discuss are further documented in the previous post. Note that the location of operations for detection will be very specific recces, facs or jtac will operate at locations defined by the mission designer. As such, direct parameters for distance, angle and zone probability can be defined. These will differ from location per location. So within a mission, multiple detection objects can be created governing the detection of recces at different locations. As such, each detection object can be given specific parameters.

was wondering too:thumbup:

Thanks, i will look into that. I've been heavily testing the Detection API of DCS, for different units, different weather conditions, hence this post. I am working on a new class to improve the detection realism a bit, which uses the default DCS World detection API, but adds additional filters to the detection. Of course, the normal AI detection behaviour cannot be influenced that easy. The new DETECTION derived classes are for Recce assignments, which report detected targets to interested subscribers... The "seeing" through trees and building is a big issue. But that that, i am making a solution. The challenge is to get the solution working without overloading CPU and influence LOS based on "cloudy zones"... So, as told working on it, let me list the points that you've mentioned, and that i have currently developed in the DETECTION class: weather (fog, humidity, rain, snowfall): This is covered by the DCS API I believe, well, sort of ... For sure overcast clouds and rain, snowfall is covered, but not sure if LOS through Individual clouds (none overcast weather) is covered. Anyway, can't do all, do I will assume that DCS world is handling these parameters correctly. time of day (light available, angle of light): Definitely proven that DCS world is handling these correctly. Interesting, the repeated detection at sunrise detects more and more targets as the sun is coming up. backdrop behind the target (contrast, color-difference): Parking that one. I assume impossible to handle this in DCS world using lua scripting. I mean impossible to know if certain vehicles or planes have "fluorecent yellow" skins or not :-) reflections (metal, glass): Same as the previous. movement (both speed, but also angle): This one is an interesting ... 1. High speed targets are more easily detectable than low speed targets? 2. Targets driving perpendicular to the observer are more easily detected than targets approach front? 3. Formation of multiple vehicles ... Will see what i can do with this. Maybe add an option later. obscuring terrain features (basically an LOS check): Hence the 3 categories of additional probabilities: 1. Distance Probability. Handles an additional filter that assumes ground clutter objects. In DCS, the floor seems flat at certain areas, however, in real life there will be trees, cages, high corn fields, little deviations in altitude of 2-3 meters etc. 2. Angle probability: This is an interesting one. If the observer is a few feet higher than the target, the target i assume is more easily detected. That i why I've created a model that calculates the alpha angle between the floor and the observer, target vector. With a little formula the angle is calculated and an angle probability treshold is calculated... 3. Cloudy zones: Working on it. Got the zone check working. But need to do additional ray casting algorithms to check if the target is visible if the target is behind the cloudy zone. It would be wonderful to have an observer observing, sees nothing, but suddenly infantry runs out of a forest and is observed, and corrective action can be taken, right? equipment (Binos, IR-sensors, etc.): That is handled by the Detection API of DCS World. Options can be given what equipment to take into account when detecting using the DCS World API. Of course, the above probability parameters are only evaluated when a detection is done visually. fatigue/concentration + time of day: That is an interesting parameter. Will take that into account... Indeed a Recce that has been observing for hours may get tired, especially at night ... Thanks shagrat for this comprehensive reply. A few good points have been added that i am happily incorporating into the new MOOSE capability. I'll mention your name as one of the contributors of the class if that is okay. If you like, you can help with some testing. Just do a ping on slack. I have some prototype models and missions working to demonstrate how the detection is working and what value it brings etc. great stuff! FC

Thanks, My question was a bit different. Is there an efficient way to quote individual sections of ONE post, including the author name. So that multiple quotes would appear on the same post. Then i could reply to each individual section. I've seen some posts like that, where i see the previous post broken into individual pieces and replies are given on each piece. Sv