tempestglen

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/tempest-V.html Those Fw190s caught by Tempest in a dive......... / And the miserable fw190 dived from 25000feet and got caught by tempest from 7000 feet to the deck with 530 MPH IAS(almost 900km/h TAS) Another fw190 was outdived by tempest at lower altitude.

http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/multimedia/movies Let's watch a movie (hawk tempest gun camera)where the historical Tempy pilot said "I think I've told you tempest is a beautiful and clean aircraft and build up speed very rapidly in a dive"(00:20-00:30) "Generally the focke wulf used to dive to get out of it if they are high to do so, now that was a very bad move because tempest would outdive them and those we shot down generally because the focke wolf thought they could get away in a dive, but they couldn't get away from tempest in dive"(01:30-02:00). IMO, fw190's dive maneuver is a suicide when chased by a tempest. But German pilots got used to dive to get away from (Spit?) and their habitual behavior----dive----finished themselves.

"The results were that both machines were fairly evenly matched." IN A DOGFIGHT. A Spitfire IX CW can beat Dora in a dogfight(low-medium speed, turning, rolling etc), but a smart Dora never let himself tangled with Spit in dogfight, Dora could hit and run, BnZ, so Dora can handle spit IX easily if you don't dogfight. A tempest MKV is as good as Dora in a dogfight, and outperforms Dora in diving/zooming and hit&run, so which one is overall better?

SLIGHTLY dive faster?????? Are you sure? It seems the cripple Il2 dive FM misleads you a lot. A Tempest MKV could outdive Dora easily just like a P47C outdived a Spitfire IX in 1943 (Johnson vs RAF instructor.) And with "dive extend & pitch back" tactic, tempest could beat dora with same initial energy. When the Spitfire IX available in DCS, I'll definitely test the dive acceleration between P51(as good as P47's dive) and Spit IX, if I can NOT reproduce the Johnson's story, DCS's FM blamed.:D

11-13lbs Tempest is as good as D9 /D13 in a dogfight, and definitely outdives and outpaces D9. So Tempest MKV is better.

Could you give the original record of mock tempest dogfights vs D9 and a D13?

Because I hate the biased ill series which enhance the dora performance in order to achieve the "balance of art". I also dislike the graph of showing K4/Dora with outdated Spit IX and low boost P51P47. K4/Dora's opponents are Spitfire XIV, Tempest, Mustang(high boost),Thunderbolt(also high boost). Be brave to face your real rival. DCS world will NEVER be same as ill series. Climb and run for D9/K4 will NEVER be as useful as in Il2. Most energy tactic Luftwaffers learned in il2 is WRONG when facing Spit XIV, 11lbs Tempy and Mustang III/IV, P47M. Those allied aircraft do not need to turn and they will hit and run, boom and zoom, outpace and outdive K4/D9, just like what D9/K4 did against Spit IX in il2. I've been waiting for several years to see the scenario where D9/K4 are outpaced and dived by allied planes. "Game balance", go to hell, :D

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/fx858.html While North American were concentrating on improving the performance of the P-51 through the development of the lightweight Mustangs, in Britain, other avenues of development were being pursued. To this end, two Mustang Mk IIIs (P-51Bs and P-51Cs), FX858 and FX901, were fitted with different Merlin engine variants. The first of these, FX858, was fitted with a Merlin 100 by Rolls-Royce at Hucknall; this engine was similar to the RM 14 SM fitted to the XP-51G and was capable of generating 2,080 hp (1,550 kW) at 22,800 ft (7,000 m) using a boost pressure of +25 lbf/in2 (170 kPa; 80 inHg) in war emergency setting. With this engine, FX858 reached a maximum speed of 453 mph (729 km/h) at 18,000 ft (5,500 m), and this could be maintained to 25,000 ft (7,600 m). The climb rate was 4,160 ft/min (21.1 m/s) at 14,000 ft (4,300 m). You see a Tempest 9lbs flies as fast as Dora. And 11lbs will definitely outspeed Dora and only require 100/130 fuel. So 11-13lbs tempy is the nightmare of Dora.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190d9test.html So no 2.02ATA edidence in WWII, just like 25lbs Spitfire XIV.;) But 13lbs Tempy did combat in europe with 640-650km/h sea level speed and obvious better dive than Dora.

If USAAF prove Griffon Mustang in 1942...... 606km/h only available WITHOUT ETC504? Flight Report Nr. 4 of Fw 190 D-9/210002 presented the following results: Operating at 1,75 ata, a maximum speed of 606 km/h (376 mph) at ground level was obtained. The maximum speed in the first gear was 650 km/h (404 mph) at 2,7 km (8858 ft.). The condition of the aircraft was as follows: D-9 production condition with methanol installation, surface smoothed/primed and polished, seams & cracks sealed, operable wheel flaps, gap at engine sealed (D-9 Serienzustand mit Methanolanlage, Oberfl鋍he gespachtelt und poliert, Spalte abgedichtet, bewegliche Radklappen, Spalte am Triebwerk abgedichtet.) These values did not quite reach the characteristic curve from the comparison dated 15.12.44. So we can state: D-9 without engine sealing - 15 km/h; with ETC 504 + fixed wheel covering about -10 km/h. This indicates that the D-9 reached the following speeds - minimum: 606 km/h (377 mph) at sea level with MW 50 injection and engine sealing; without ETC 504 and variable wheel covering. 591 km/h (367 mph) at sea level with MW 50 injection; without engine sealing, ETC 504 and variable wheel covering. 581 km/h (361 mph) at sea level with MW 50 injection, ETC 504 and fixed wheel covering; without engine sealing. With 1900 PS engine set up: 578 km/h (359 mph) at sea level without engine sealing and variable wheel covering. 568 km/h (353 mph) at sea level with ETC 504 and fixed wheel covering.

Of course I am adult. :) I'm just worried about some other people.

WWII flight simulation circle not big, kurfurst is famous for his effort of asking il2 to add highboost 109K4 etc. and his 109 website, besides long time quarrel with "allied" side. If you debate for 10 years, keeping good temper is difficult when you see old opponents comes out.:D

God bless us.

As a descendant of typhonn, tempest share almost same cockpit model with it. If we complete tempy, typhoon is not far away. I support typhoon too!

Tempest outdives thunderbolt and fly faster than latter at low altitude. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/sl-wade.html Dives Speed and acceleration in the dive is an essential quality to a successful fighter, but a decisive conclusion on the order of superiority is largely dependant on throttle settings, and the maximum speed in straight and level flight of the individual aircraft. Here again, however, by carrying out a number of tests under different conditions, it is reasonable to assume that the Meteor is well ahead of its rivals, followed by the Tempest, Thunderbolt, Mustang and Spitfire in that order. Efficient streamlining and maximum speed both influence the dive, although a jet propelled aircraft will invariably have the advantage, particularly at the higher speeds, when the conventional fighter is progressively more handicapped by airscrew drag, and the accessory protuberances common to all conventionally powered fighters. No account is taken in this order of Mach number limitations or altitude, as at around 500 mph the limitations imposed on the maximum permissible speeds for each type cause considerable change in the order, but it should be appreciated that these do not affect the diving qualities of the aircraft as opposed to maximum speed of which they are capable. First prize to the Meteor.

Dora, 109K4, P51, Spitfire IX, XIV, it seems all powerful aircrafts in 1944-45 of weatern line will show off in DCS sky. I strongly suggest ED add a Tempest in future. It's unimaginable for USAAF without P51, and unimaginable for Luftwaffe lacking of fw190,, so is RAF having no Tempest MKV in late years of WWII! Tempest Sqn claimed 240 air victories and 8:1 ratio on Luftwaffe. If a Tempest costs 50$ even 100$, I'll buy it without hesitate. http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/multimedia/movies In this link, you'll see movies(gun camera) how a Tempest dogfight a Dora in history. Let's vote for Tempest, the one that outdives/outzooms any piston aircraft in WWII!!! The King of Boom/Zoom tactic! Fw190D9's lethal opponent!

I've read somewhere that a D-13 outpaced/climbed tempy at high altitude.That's natural because D-13 equipped with 2-stage supercharger while tempy remained 1-stage. During the development of Tempy Sabre engine(1943?), Britain engineer of that company decided to drop 2-stage supercharger for speed the progress. Thus tempy high altitude was same as bf109/fw190a/D9. And fw190D-13 is another story, but irrelevant to WWII. :)

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/theater_barrels_tons.html This data clearly shows that 2nd tactic air force in north west Europe consumed 2000 to 12000 tons 150 fuel per month from Jan. to May. 1945. Thus high boost Spit/Tempy actually combated from Jan after shipment of 150 fuel occurred from Britain in mid Dec. 1944 and distributed to Sqn in Jan. 1945 from Antwerp.

We just know tempy and dora are on a par with each other in 1vs 1 dogfight, roughly. Can I say lange had better skills? D-13 is not relevant to WWII. Most of us do not care about it. For many years, the hot debates occurred again and again between blue and red sides, I suggest we calm down, talk facts, and stop insult. BTW, from 1943 late to 1944 spring, USAAF and Luftwaffe were bloodletting around B17s above Germany and luftwaffe had little interest in attacking Britain while the air combat over 3rd reich is definitely out of spitfire's range, so RAF had no incentive to order more spit and brand new types. This explains why changeover of spit XIV was so slowly. After all, it wasn't BOB. When German were driven out of Normandie, and allied landed on continent, RAF 2nd tactic air force began to operate from bases in France (usually bombed by allied already ). That's late 1944. From then on, the 2nd tactic vs Luftwaffe was of east front type: typical conflict between tactic air forces.

Kurfust， someone said Luftwaffe had two type of propellers, one optimized for speed and the other for climb. What's your proof?

It's ok to build a plane set below: 1944 Oct- 1945 Spring: 18lbs Spit IX, XIV, 11lbs Tempy vs low boost K4/D9. 1945 Spring - VE: higher boost for both sides Don't forget higher boost only improves performance above FTH, and Spitfire XIV's role is to fly high and cover other RAF a/c, there is no difference between 18lbs and 21lbs above 4000m. We need a 11lbs tempy which is runing on 100/130 fuel not 115/150. The Tempy's role is just like Dora. Yes, in late years RAF was not mainforce fighting Luftwaffe anymore, and 2nd RAF only need to cope with a portion of K4/D9, other k4s go for USAAF.:D http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/piloter/victories Tempest shot down hundreds of german planes(200? I havn't count), not so many as USAAF did but not negligible. It seems that it was Fairbanks(ACE) first shot down Dora at 22 Feb 1945. Any ealier combat between Dora and Tempy? Another famous tempy pilot Clostermann got others Dora. It is said that Tempy sqn finnaly got 8:1 ratio on Luftwaffe when air to air. Therefore 20-30 Tempests lost due to german planes. 22 Feb Fw190D 2 274 S/L D.C. Fairbanks (EJ648) Rheine airfield III/JG 54 2 April Fw190D-9 1 56 F/L P.H. Clostermann US-G (NV968) Aldhorn airfield See note no.

I'v spent most of time in flying Dora and Tempy,of course in il2. I prefer Tempy/Dora over P51 in a dogfight.

Correct, I believe DCS will model this. Is this difficult? In il2 series I can get some control when hanging in the air with 0 IAS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190_operational_history?oldid=0 Funny stuff. Tempest MKV and Dora are even in a 1v1 dogfight. But in a high speed dive/zoom I believe Tempy is quite better. Comparison: Fw 190D and Hawker Tempest[edit] Shortly after the war the British became interested in the performance and evaluation of the advanced German Fw 190 D-13. While at Flensburg the British Disarmament Wing wanted to see how this fighter would perform against one of their best, a Hawker Tempest. Squadron Leader Evans approached Major Heinz Lange and asked him to fly a mock combat against one of their pilots. Lange accepted, even though he had only 10 flights in a D-9.[77] The mock dogfight was conducted at an altitude of 10,000 ft (3,000 m), with only enough fuel for the flight and no ammunition. In the end the machines were evenly matched. Major Lange assessed that the outcome of such a contest greatly depended on the skills of the individual pilot. At the time Lange was not aware that he was not flying a D-13 but rather a D-9. The same "Yellow 10" (Wk. Nr. 836017) that was previously assigned to Geschwaderkommodore Franz Götz was used in this evaluation. "Yellow 10" was further subjected to mock combat when on 25 June 1945 Oberleutnant Günther Josten was asked to fly a comparison flight against another Tempest.[77]

Dora first flight mission--- 18 Dec.1944 by Second Gruppe Dora first meeting enemy(heavy bombers)--- 23-24 Dec. 1944 Christmas Eve, :) 2 days later, german pilots found that P51(probably 21lbs) outpaced and outdived(accelaration in dive)? their brand new Dora(majoriy of them low boost). In a level accelaration, Dora should outpermanced P51 due to higher climb rate. Increasing boost of Dora only slightly improve dive acceleration which is mainly dertermined by aerodynamic and weight. So both Dora/K4 should be regard as a/c in 1945 scenario, to fight against 21lbs Spit XIV,25lsb IX, 11-13lbs Tempy whose 115/150 fuel was delivered 2 Jan 1945 for RAF 2nd tactic force in continent.