USARStarkey

Ill spell it out. Either he has done it himself, or someone who taught him to fly did it. I dont know. But you have obviously made up you mind in favor of your benefactors so......:music_whistling:

And Another: part of my original question:but in sims the P-51s flaps refuse to come out farther than the amount allowed for a given speed even if I put the flaps controls down to the bottom. If this is indeed accurate behavior, is it limited because some kind of safety is preventing it, or because there is insufficient hydraulic pressure to make it happen? (in response to a question I had about the plane)XXXXX: The real 51 flaps come out "RIGHT NOW!!!!!!" Your game, and I emphasize GAME, having nothing to do with 1400 lbs PSI in REAL life, has nothing to do with reality. No! Nothing in your GAME as described is accurate! Starkey So they come out at any speed? Even if over prescribed limit? That is very interesting. XXXX: Yes! And you may break them if deployed to fast!

That would appear to be obvious. A direct quote: "The flaps will come out based in HYD pressure and flap handle position. Nothing else. Put the flap handle at the third notch at 450 MPH and you risk structural damage. There is no built in limit other than the pilot." I will give a name for this pilot as soon as I have contacted him and have permission to give it.

Well then, I guess all planes should just be ai controlled so as to prevent any non-procedural mistakes. Such brilliance....:doh:

I have discusses this issue at great length with multiple P-51 pilots. The flaps on the P-51 WILL deploy at speeds over the allowed amount. If this were changed I dont envision some advantage, but rather that pilots would have to pay attention and have more discipline to not break something.

So is that an error or intended? Is it faster or slower?

OK

I dont understand what your trying to say.......could you reword it? How was that hard to understand. FYI: your English was a bit broken there and I wanted to get a better understanding of what you meant......no offense Are you saying that the speed has changed since you made those charts?

Could you clarify this please.

Additionally, stuff by pilum: Alt(Km) v true(Km/h) v ind(Km/h) climb(m/s) climb (fpm) 0.00 298.74 298.74 22.65 4470.28 0.10 299.83 298.44 22.60 4461.40 0.20 300.94 298.14 22.55 4450.97 0.30 302.07 297.84 22.51 4442.17 0.40 303.21 297.54 22.45 4431.09 0.50 304.37 297.25 22.40 4421.08 0.60 305.55 296.95 22.34 4409.50 0.70 306.75 296.65 22.29 4399.58 0.80 307.97 296.35 22.23 4388.08 0.90 309.21 296.05 22.18 4378.26 1.00 310.46 295.75 22.13 4366.85 1.10 311.63 295.45 22.08 4356.93 1.20 312.81 295.15 22.02 4345.40 1.30 314.02 294.86 21.97 4335.58 1.40 315.24 294.56 21.91 4324.13 1.50 316.48 294.26 21.68 4279.53 1.60 317.74 293.96 21.34 4212.49 1.70 319.02 293.66 21.00 4145.47 1.80 320.33 293.36 20.79 4103.06 1.90 321.65 293.06 20.63 4071.60 2.00 323.00 292.76 20.53 4052.40 2.10 324.24 292.47 20.46 4038.63 2.20 325.51 292.17 20.38 4023.18 2.30 326.79 291.87 20.31 4007.78 2.40 328.09 291.57 20.25 3996.30 2.50 329.42 291.27 20.20 3985.89 2.60 330.77 290.97 20.13 3973.76 2.70 332.14 290.67 20.08 3963.46 2.80 333.53 290.37 20.03 3953.23 2.90 334.95 290.08 19.97 3941.26 3.00 336.39 289.78 19.92 3931.14

Because the Germans say it took almost 11 minutes....... All of the graphs show the Dora getting 21-22m/s....not 25.4........and it certainly is sustaining 22m/s all the way up to 11000ft.

Perhaps I misunderstand your last post? But in my test I got 5000-4600fpm all the way up to 12000ft, airspeed increasing the entire time. I am not referring to a chart, unless you mean what I am comparing it to, which is the tests where 21-22m/s is shown for 1.8 ata. Anyhow Bed. 6am. I will respond later to whatever you reply with.

Except that is has been repeatedly demonstrated that at Full power in game we get considerably more than the chart indicated.

Yes, because crump thinks that through careful pilot application, I can reduce my time to climb so much as to preclude caring about sustained climb at all! Nevermind that zooming would result in increased angle that would eventually lose speed and then your LOSE climb rate for quite a while as you would have to re-accelerate after you drop the nose. SHHH averages.....With such expert zooming one has to wonder why the the ultra slick, or ultra massive P-51 or P-47 dont just rocket to 30k in 2min with proper application of micro zoom. I guess that would solve all my dog-fighting woes in multiplayer. Next time a 190 or 109 tries to climb out, Ill just apply the secret micro zoom techniques and shoot past him like a rocket! :pilotfly:

Thats got the be the most ridiculous things Ive ever heard. The calculations would have been based (and yo-yo-s FM presumably) on data gathered from testing of a either models or a aircraft in a wind tunnel. Engine power would have been exacting. Variations in real planes would have results from deviations from perfect manufacture, wear of engines and all sorts of idiosyncrasies.... What you just argued would allow for Yo Yo or any other game dev the ability to model a P-51 at combat weight a climb rate of 4300fpm and top speed of 530mph.... its only + or minus 20% after all. Heck, with that logic the 109 can P-51 could SWAP PLACES with regards to climb rate......the 109K can now climb at 3600fpm. :megalol: Do you even notice that the difference of 20% is more than the difference of a 190 with and without MW50? You could just remove MW50 from the game and tell everyone who complains to quite their whining since its withing 20% either way....:doh:

Did the test myself several times with time of 7-8min to 9000m. My last test was meant to be as conservative as possible and I tried to maintain a ever increasing airspeed, which I did until very high altitude at which point my airspeed became fairly homogeneous. starting at 198mph TAS, I climbed at a fairly constant angle and ever increasing speed to obtain a climb rate of 5087ft/min. The entire time I was accelerating in the climb, so no zooms what-so-ever. I was able maintain 22m/s or 4500ft/min up to about 11,000ft, massively outstripping the real FW190. I used full power and max fuel load in the tests. Things to note about the documentation. There do not appear to be any climb rate tests of real FW190 D-9s(mw50). (at least not that I have seen) However, I am quite confident that the Germans were capable of producing accurate estimations of performance. One does hope Germanys engineers were not total incompetents. Yo-Yo's FM is indeed a estimate itself..... That beings said, the D-12 190s were only capable on the other flight tests of 21m/s. This is very close to the estimate for the D-9s. Furthermore, the D-9 estimates for the lower power settings in crumps charts are in very good agreement with each other. One can only hope the German engineers didn't lose their calculator in between estimates :megalol: Tacview-20150118-211240-DCS.txt.rar

Indeed. If you run WEP, you get the speeds on Yo-Yo's cahrt for military power. If you run military power, you get even less.

Its slower because its not as fast as it should be in the game. Ive posted about this before and there is something funny going on with the speed, perhaps even the wep. Oddly enough, if you look at Yo-Yos chart there and then go in game and test, you get the speeds he indicated with 67inches not 61. I did extensive flying to see how fast you could go at 24000ft, and I got the same speed in multiple runs and I could go any faster at wep than he puts on that chart...which is at military power.

He can do what he wants obviously. But you cant expect anyone here to just take you guys word for it without any data to back it up. Until hard data is posted All we have is allusion to information that we cannot see. You cannot expect people to just take ED's word for it.

If you Yo-Yo has more conclusive data, then please post it.

not tested but Id imagine the same.

I was talking to 2 different P-51 pilots recently about the P-51s flaps. I described how they work in DCS. IE: if your going to fast, the flaps wont deploy past the safe speed. I was told by both flat out that this is not accurate. They stated that the P-51 will deploy flaps at any speed and its up for the pilot to keep from breaking the plane or exceeding the limit. What gives on this? Im not expecting a performance gain, but it seems odd that in a game like DCS you'd have such an artificial limiter. In addition, this makes the 109 flaps seem rather odd to me. For one, in direct contradiction to the manual, I can open my flaps fully at ANY speed. Yesterday I was doing it at 440mph, then diving from 20,000ft to the deck at over 400mph and pulling out leaving the flaps at full extension and nothing detrimental happened. I find two things odd about this. Firstly, it seems like there should be some kind of detrimental effect from deploying max flaps at nearly 3 times max flap limit. Second, I find it kind of hard to believe that someone could hand wheel out those flaps at that degree at that speed.....when at least according to DCS, a plane with a 1000+psi system cant. Sorry if this seems like a two plane problem. Wasn't sure where to put it.

The people who collect and post those documents have been doing it just as long, if not longer than ED. If this documentation does indeed exist, let it be shown. Otherwise your merely speculating on who the "experts" are at data collection.

you sure you werent looking at knots? 328 knots is 377mph.

I agree. There isnt a single chart anywhere showing a 1.8ata bf109K doing better than 4700fpm or 22-24m/s. Even the ones for 1.98 ata. Id like to know how the 109 is finding "extra power"