MetalGear_Honk

Hi all I have been playing around with someMotors. And now I think that I need to adjust my Idea for the PWM to use forPower. The Motors I have tested are weak so itmight be the source of my concerns. When I test some of the effects it looksmuch like the Motors don't do anything. Only if I use effects with Forces over70% I get Feedback. So I investigated some more and realize that my Motors arenot linear thou there power usage. I am still using the internal ADC scaleddown to one Byte. Using a 16bit ADC would give us more precession in theForces. But I am afraid that we lose a lot if I simply cut the lower PWM rangeand use the upper 30% linear. Any Thoughts on that? Someone with more Info’s on Motors? I am thinking of using a sort ofCalibration Ramp to make the Motors power range more linear. But that wouldmean that every Motor needs its own Calibration curve. For the Gimbal: I am working on a very simple design and Ihope to finish it over the Weekend. If it works out it will be easy enough tobe reproduced in a Basic Workshop. With no Special Tools needed. I couldn't get it 3D-Printer friendly so Iswitched back to Aluminum. I don't have the drawings completed as Idraw it up while I test it out. Although I am using Old-school Equipmentin my Workshop (pen and Paper) MetalGear_Honk

Hi To use a Pro Micro: First we need to get rid of the ArduinoBootloader. For that we will need an ISP or a JTAGProgrammer. ISP is cheaper and you can use anotherArduino for that. The Problem here is that most Programmeruse their own Software. I will try to get the instructions out ofmy Memory. Usingan Arduino uno: 1. Load the Arduino IDE. 2. Connect the Uno to your PC (USB) 3. Open the source code"ArduinoISP" from the Examples Folder 4. In the Tools/Board Folder select thecorrect Serial port. 5. Press the upload button 6. Wire the Uno to the Pro micro UNO Name Micro Pin 11 MOSI Pin16 Pin10 Reset RST Pin12 Miso pin14 Pin13 sck pin15 +5V Voltage VCC GND Ground GND 7. Select sketch/Upload with programmer 8. Select the HEX I uploaded. That should be it. No guaranty I haven’t done it this way fora Long time. MetalGear_Honk

Hi Slartibartfast Given that you are Familiar with c++ Get the Atmel Studio 7 and open the code Ihave uploaded. This Version is for an ATMega32u4 NOT foran Arduino. You can use the Micro that is onboard aPro Micro but you need to kill the Bootloader to get the Joystick running. LUFA is running inside the Micro so if yougot it right you can use "Flip" to reprogram the Controller. @ All I really thought that I had written asmall tutorial about programming a Controller. But I can't find it. For short Google "ISPProgramming" there are plenty of tutorials. MetalGear_Honk

Hi all Ok first things first. @crow: I like your idea but I think it is betterto open a new thread. As I don't think it can be built into aHID-PID device. Because there is almost no way to transfer the data it wouldneed without additional Drivers/connections. @Slartibartfast: Feel free to grab the code and have alook. Ask if something is unclear. And don't be too shocked about myProgramming style. @VR FlightSim About the Motor Shield. The Pins that Iselected for the Bridge are not the same as intended by the shield. So you needto rewire it Manual. @Deadman I cannot guaranty that you will not killyour Equipment. So you (and everybody else including me)do all testing on their own risk. @crosswise What Forces are Feld on the stick dependson the Sim Designers. They decide what force to use and how strong/Directionand when. The PID Document describes all availableEffects, as there are: 1. Constant Force 2. Ramp 3. Custom Force / Data 4. Square 5. Sine 6. Triangle 7. Saw tooth up 8. Saw tooth down 9. Spring 10. Damper 11. Interia 12. Friction No more no less Looking at the Forces and the function weall are most interested in are 9. Spring To give an Offset Center. 10. Damper To simulate Wing load 11. Ramp To add to Wing load And one or more from the PeriodicFunctions 4 - 8 For Ground rumble / Guns / Stall These functions are supported byDirectInput and are the ones I/we are hoping to get. As these are the ones mostSims Support. All These Forces are send in three blocks. 1. Effect Type 2. Type Specific Block 1 3. Type Specific Block 2 Exaple1 1. Spring - 2. Condition X-axis - 3.Condition Y-axis Example2 1. Sine - 2.Periodic - 3. Enveloppe These Info’s are send at the beginning ofthe Sim (when entering a Plane in DCS) There can be multiple Effects of the sametype. And they can be changed or deleted during the sim. When the Sim decides that an Effect shouldbe played it only sends the "number" which should be played. So thereis less delay for the feel. More in deep Info’s about FFB can be foundin the pid01_01.pdf In the DirectInput Documentation or at myDesk. MetalGear_Honk

Hi I know of this one. I already tried to rebuild it but I haveProblems to get the "Moving" Parts right. When I understand it correctly the cross64b can slide inside the Arms 62b If someone can provide some better plans Iwill try it again. MetalGear_Honk

Hi As I had some Problems with my Headtracker Camera, the PS3 EyeCam. And the Point that the CLEyeDriver is nolonger supported. I was looking into an alternative. Most Webcams work out of the pox but onlyas 30fps. That is far too slow to get used as Head tracker PSEye uses 90fps asdoes the Trackir System. After some searching I found the ELP-HD2megapixel cameras witch gets me 1200fps at VGA Resolution. The onlydownside is that it runs in YUY2 mode when connected to Opentrack/Facetracknoirand then it only gives me 30fps. https://www.amazon.com/ELP-megapixel-surveillance-machine-monitor/dp/B015FIKTZC/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1508138385&sr=8-7&keywords=ELP+usb+2+Megapixel The solution was to use a virtual Driverlike "Manycam" I installed it and added the ELP in MJPEG mode. Afterthat I could select the "Manycam" in my Opentrack program and it runsat 60fps. There is a watermark in the free Versionof Manycam but the tracker runs fine with it. After some more experiments I found outthat Manycam is restricting the cam to max60fps. But I think that is not a bigdeal. As for me I can tell no difference in my PS Eye and the ELP MetalGear_Honk

Hi @ VR FlightSim: The Motor shield you are showing shouldwork if get the connections right. The Pins are for a Uno Board so you needto wire it up manually. For the rest it is a Dual H-Bridge likethe one I mentioned bevor. For the effects itself: the sim tells theJoystick which effects with which Parameters to use and when/how Long. There is a fixed set of effects defined inthe HID-PID Protocol That is used by all existing FFB Sticks/Wheels/Jokes That said there is a Special definedeffect called "custom effect" as far as I know it is not supported byany device or Sim. @jpdesvals You cannot use XLoader for uploading youNeed a Programmer (Hardware) as it needs to override the Bootloader. I made aStep by step to explain how to do it. But be Aware you can kill your Pro Microthat way. This Project is NOT for someone withoutMicrocontroller knowledge. (At last not at this stage) @Deadman It is still WIP. I have a Controller that is recognized asUSB-FFB Joystick. And I can move Motors according to effects send fromGames/Test Programs. Now I need to add a gimbal and fine tunethe Effects. @Crow Nice. If you use a custom Servo you can read thePosition of your Throttle and compare it to the Position it should have. Addinga small delay for the mechanic and you know when to send the Signal to disengage. MetalGeear_Honk

Hi This Gimbal is the same Principal as I usein my last Stick. As well as it is in the VKG Versions. It is a wonderful solution for spring-loadedSticks. But it is not (or not good) for FFB. The inner Bearings is not static and itwould be necessary to move the Motor around. MetalGear_Honk

Hi "VR Flightsim" is right. The OpenSource Force Feedback Joystick will Show up as a Native FFB Joystick. So all FlightSims that Support FFB will send effects direct to the stick. No other Softwareis needed. The optional software "VRFligtSim" is talking about can alter the Effects from the sim to Changethem as you feel them right. To put all back into one Post: The OSFFB Stick will be a native HID FFB(Windows Standard Driver) So no Additional Software is needed. It will have Two FFB axes for the stickitself. 6 additional axes for free use (maybeThrottle, Pedals or Mixture) 32 Buttons 2 4way Hats. The two FFB axes will be 16bit Input inany way. This needs to be fix as We Need TheseInputs to calculate the Force Effects/positions. I have set the other 6 axes to 16bit aswell. But it is possible to use the DUE's ADC and bit shift it to 16bit. I am using shift register in my otherSticks to reduce the amount of Wire needed to run throe the Gimbal. So I willadd these as well. (For 4021be and 74HC595 are basically thesame the 4021 is outdated) I have used an H-Bridge for the Motors sothat we can use a wide range of Motors and Motor Drivers. I think the ones usedfor 2DOF Seats are a bit over power but will work as well (given the correctDriver) I think Servo or Stepper Motors will be tooexpensive. That is what I am trying to mainlyArchive. So the actual Status is that we have aworking Code for a Pro Micro. But it is missing some Effects I am still workingon math to get the Sinus effect right. I am testing on a SDK600 which is notcompatible with a Due so I need to get a new testbed. Also there is no working Open Source Gimbalthat is capable of supporting two Motors. (for testing a 3D Printed Versionwould be great, so changing parts is faster and cheaper) for the finisheddesign a Metal Version would be better to get a flour mounted Version stableenough. MetalGear_Honk

Hi For your Diagram: The Software is optional. And between the Due and the pots will be aADS1115 Or the pots will be replaced with 3dHallsensor both use I2C connection. The rest will hopefully run as you Showit. At the Moment the Due is a Pro Micro I don't own a Due, so all programming isdone for the Micro until i have a Due and the Equipment to work with it. MetalGear_Honk

Hi Crow The CD4021BSC works with 3V to 15V so itwill work on the Due I have used quite a lot of these. So Iknow they are really robust. Lately I switched to 74hc595 for smallersize and more Speed in reading. For the Hall sensors I was thinking aboutusing an ADS1115. It is a small ADC with 16 bit and can beread over I2C so we are free to use whatever Analog Input we can find Pot,Hall, linear Pot... For the Arduino IDE I am not sure if itcan be used for the FFB as it slows the code a lot. (And I am programming in AtmelStudio for a Long time) Maybe someone with more experience inArduino can help here? MetalGear_Honk

Here is the Rest:

Hi I have a small conversation with "VR FlightSim" his Work and homepage was mentioned some posts up. We are thinking that it is interesting toknow for all. And maybe some there are some more thinks to add from the rest ofthe community. So here it goes:

Hi OCR4x is the Value for the DWM. It determinesthe frequency. merk is the short form for Merker (germenfor Marker) I use it for testing. Mostly to find outif some Triggers are met. The bit "allof" is used if noeffect is set. Mostly as a failsafe. Of when the Joystick is used without FFB. Example 1: is mostly a place holder as forinteria is not programmed properly but I do not want to get Errors when I getInteria effects Example 2: is to Change digital FFBdirection (254 angles) to rad (360 degree) MetalGear_Honk

Ok I haven't studied the full Datasheet for your MLX90333. But you need to set _SS one time to high to begin with. And the line Datasheet Page 36: To synchronize communication, the Masterdeactivates /SS high for at least t5 (1.5 ms) "SPI.beginTransaction(settingMLX);" Needs to go in the Setup. Next Point is where/how have you connected the Clock line (CLK)? What is the Value of this "SPI_CLOCK_DIV128" ? Couldn’t find the declaration. The Delays are not necessary as they areafter a Data Package was send. The Timings refer to the Clock Timings. I haven't looked up your Transfair Values but it is suspicios that X value and Y Values would have the same comand line. MetalGear_Honk

Hi I am mostly guessing. as we didn't get all needed infos. if you use the Arduino IDE than you should use the Library for the SPI. if you are using any other IDE please read the SPI Specification again. there is no Delay needed as it is carried with the CLK line. that will make your timings. other than that we would need to see your code to get a better understanding what is not working properly. MetalGear_Honk

Hi I am not quite sure what you mean aboutthe Inputs. But for using RC-Servos: The cheap ones are fairly weak. The strong ones are quite expensive. These servos are Position controlled internally.From extern you only give a PWM to Position the horn. And the internal circuit keepsit there. For FFB and RC-Servos: One would need a Pot / Hall Sensor for actualStick Position. And the Controller IC would send a corresponding PWM to theservos. From that Point it would be almost thesame as my Test Setup. Only that I handle the "Servocontrol" inside the Controller IC. MetalGear_Honk

Hi In the Pictures that jpdesvals provided in this thread (Thanks again for that)the Picture where all Parts are spread out nicely There Are clearly twoPots.one the right side. For the rest i Think Sokol is right. not much improvement in changing the Pots. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/922/USoBef.jpg' alt='USoBef.jpg'> MetalGear_Honk

Hi Yes it should be possible to get the PWM Signals and the direction signals from the MSFFB2 Board. I am not sure about the Sensors/ Pots in most Sticks it is possible to use Halls to replace the pots. I have never checked that on the FFB2. as for news on this project I haven’t had much time over the summer. so I am still working on the Hardware part. I have a working set of Motors running to get the Power settings better. but not much to show at the moment. not sure if someone else got any further at the Hardware side? MetalGear_Honk

Hi OK so first: CNC use Steppers not PWM (Pulse wide Modulation). even the cheapest 3d Printer use Steppers. second: The sidewinder uses PWM it is directed from the Controller to the "Enable" pin of the H-Bridge. (that way it looks like a true DAC (Digital to Analog conversation) on the Motor side. that is exactly what I am using here. for the gears: Using step down gears reduces the backlash and play that is feeld at the grip. The Shaft winding systems produce to much Force that can not countered by the Operator (you will not be able to move the stick against the Motor) that is great for motion Platforms but not for a FFB Stick. The same goes for linear Actuators and worm drive. so much for the Mech parts. if I got something wrong please feel free to correct me. For the software: the main intension was/is to replace the good Sidewinder-mainboard. so a SF Hack is not a way to go. :-) I am full aware of the difficulties for developing something like this. but interfacing with the SIM is not part of the Stick. it is done in the USB driver. as it is part in the USB-PID (Universal-Serial-Bus-Physical-Interface-Device). that makes the Stick as it is Working already a simple Plug and Play :-) that part is already done by me. so as USB is part of the Windows Kernel the Stick can be used an all machines without additional drivers/software. for getting Force informations from the SIM: most all sims/modules that I have tested provide Directing / support FFB. So knowing that all, I can assume that we already have a working Version of a Diy-FFB Stick. as it is already working with DCS and other Sims. not completed but Working. the biggest and by far most complicated missing part is getting the forces to feel right. that is what makes the Sidewinder so unique. again i am not the best Software developer in the World (but almost :-D ) so if someone can correct me I am more than happy in getting help. MetalGear_Honk

Hi all i hope someone is still interested: here is another Version. this time with working Axis and Motor Control. I am not finished with the Moter PWM Control. it feels slugish at small forces. but i think it is good enough for some more testing. For the Mechanics: I am working on a Gimball design but that will take some more time to get it right. JOYSTICK_Test.zip

ReHi For the Xloader. At first it looks like a greattool. But as I have no bootloader implemented it would brick you pro micro. Better to go with a UNO as ISP programmer Or any other ISP Programmer. forthe open ffbWeel: It has only one Axis as you stated. Thereforonly capable of two directions. A Joystick has two Axis and is capableof 254 Directions. The PID states that force and Directionare send in one command set of three Signals. For Basic use. Force effect,Force Strength and force direction. (That is strongly simplified for moreInformation please read the HID and PID device class documents) Another side note different effects on OSWsimply add up the force that is applied. On the stick it is possible to geteffects in different directions. Constant force 128 (180°pull from High G) andrising Saw 63 (90° from bullet impacts) these are not stacked but using differentMotors to drive. Reducing the angle between the two effectswill produce some overlay but will not mask them entirely. I am not the best Software developeraround so feel free to correct me. Another note: I have to correct myselfform earlier the L298N can Support 5A so we have a lot more power to play with. MetalGear_Honk

Hi For using a different Arduino, or otherHardware: The Arduino Uno uses a different MCU(ATMEGA328P) which has no USB functionality. To communicate with the PC it usesa second MCU (ATmega16U2) The Arduino Pro Micro (ATmega32u4) For a quick Explanation about Atmel MCU's: AT= Atmel mega= MCU Family 32/ 16 internal Memory for programming U = USB Capable Rest = Special stuff not of interest forthe Moment. We Need a USB capable for obvious reason. Sothe UNO is out of question. And the UNO's Communications MCU is not assessablefor reprogramming (Or not recommended) and it has not enoughMemory to hold the code for FFB. So, we could build the Communication MCUto hold the PID/HID. And use the ATmega238P to hold the functionality. It willbe a lot of work just to get the communication between these two MCU running. Notto talk about sending Forces all the way from Direct Input (PC) tothe Motors. In short it may be possible to Change thecode to fit into a UNO, but it is too much work to make it happen. And I stillhave a lot of work to get the MICRO to a working Status. For Getting a working HEX: As I said a few Posts earlier a am workingon a "Functional" Version for everybody to test. :-) At least with the internal ADC as I am stillwaiting for my new ASD1115 Speaking of functions is Button Supportneeded for your tests? MetalGear_Honk

Hi The easy part first. :-) The l298n is wired to the atmega32u4(Arduino pro). So it has nothing to with your PC. The MCUis giving the signals for Direction and Speed (PWM) only the external power forthe DC Motor is separately wired to the L298n. it can run 2Ampere for eachMotor so we have something to play with. As for the step by step for burning theMCU. I will see what I can do. But I am notvery good with such things. MetalGear_Honk

Hi That was exactly what I was missing. Thanks a lot for the Part pictures. the central shaft is the flexible part that I was expecting. now I can easy build one with Ball-bearings. Thanks again. as for the firmware: I am expanding some of the Basic functions for better testing. 1. I will switch from JTAG to ISP to get better compatibility to the pro micro. 2. I will integrate a ads1115 for higher resolution/ better positioning. 3. I plan to activate the buttons and axis to report back to the sim. (I use the signals for bug searching) MetalGear_Honk