jusu_d

Slartibartfast: Found the high-perf glider picture. ASW-27B at wings and wheels; practically everything is visible:

Slartibartfast: Thanks for the link, always interested to see what people have done! Don't know if it's of any use, but Finnish Traffic Agency has a lot of data available on PIK-20 - for example, "Control of ailerons, elevator and rudder" at https://www.trafi.fi/en/aviation/airworthiness/pik-20_support/pik-20_and_pik-20b_parts_catalogue_and_specification_drawings might be interesting, control column and trim systems visible :) PIK-20 has the same kind of trim that LocNar told SZD-59 has, that is, a adjustable spring loading the control column. I saw some really high performance modern glider has the same arrangement, but can't recall the type - technical pictures of these planess are really hard to find :P When planning a distributable, open joystick, the available tools define quite a lot of what is a "good" gimbal/centering structure. 3D printing, CNC machining, laser cutting & welding all prefer different kind of structures. But the mechanism, IMHO, stays the same. A scissor centering mechanism that you see in most commercial joysticks is never a good solution; it simply doesn't represent the forces in real planes. For a passive system the cam seems to be somewhat optimal; at least it can be tuned by changing the cam, springs and preload. Even speed-variable load and "correct" trim aren't out of picture. Electrical control loading gives a lot more options, but is also two-three steps more complicated. (WHAT? Condor2 is not dead-dead-dead? :D ) Abburo: IIRC MetalGear_Honk said his software is on Arduino Leonardo, which uses AVR32U4, which means that 2560 wouldn't do. Arduino Leonardo, Arduino Micro, Teensy 2.0 and some others use the same chip. MetalGear_Honk: PM the code or link to it, I'll take a look. Based on some mental calculations I think it should be doable on AVR. And if not, eg. STM32F103 -based development boards are dirt cheap ($2) and are a lot faster.

While googling for FFB stuff I found out that Grendel's old adapter for MS gameport joysticks has been "updated", and it now supports FF on Sidewinder FFB gameport version. The code can be found at https://github.com/tloimu/adapt-ffb-joy and seems to be useful for this project too. Beefier MCU than AVR would indeed be a smart idea, though. AVR starts to be a bottleneck if one would eg. implement vector control (for brushless motors) to reduce commutation jerk - a lot can be done, but it doesn't make sense to spend time fighting with a small (but equally expensive) MCU. Raspi was mentioned; the regular ones can't be used as USB devices, Raspi Zero can be but it doesn't (iirc) have ADC inputs or such. Lighter cores such as STM32* would be suitable. I recall someone mentioned doing development on ARM & FF? http://imgur.com/a/zfItq Nice.. Linear motors and what not. Guess we'll hear more soon. And the book under the joystick tells me this is no Joyrider (google it up) Slartibartfast: I'm participating in a similar project, simpit in a glider hull. Pretty much at starting point, and summer (flying season) doesn't help. How's your project going?

Back from dead or something? I'm also still poking around the concept. At work I have access to all kinds of nice & necessary equipment, and have lately been working eg. with industrial servos (the sort familiar from OSW). Although those wouldn't be a reasonable DIY solution, I'm thinking on trying them out to get more understanding on limiting factors, values etc; it's easier to "dumb down" servos with software than upgrade hardware. MetalGear_Honk, could you post the source code here or on github? Integrating to and extending your software could be the easiest path here (as MMOs FFB system only works with one axis, and the developer doesn't seem to be interested in more development.) I could also look at the effect problems at source level. hegykc. reading telemetry and building FFB effects on that like you suggested is a path that has been and can be used, although it needs a bit of work for each simulator. I'd like to add that it has one option that you kind of mentioned: gun effects. Because - rant warning - I've seen enough games and even simulations having insane gun FFB effects. Yes, technically firing the gun creates a force, but the scale! A Bf-109 weighs 3 tons, P-47 6 tons - firing a gun doesn't throw the plane around much, and definitely doesn't throw the _stick_ around related to the plane. Some Logitech FF joystick hardware layout made it even worse, with the motor jerking potentiometer around and effectively ending the gun run right away. So.. with DIY/OSS solution, one can either 1) skip creating gun effects altogether or 2) if using USB interface, possibly identify (on per-game basis) the gun effects(sine, ramp, ...) and switch them off. Regarding motors I'll throw in a couple links. First, steppers are out as-is, with "normal" control they simply can't deliver what's needed. But this is quite interesting, more advanced control for a stepper: https://hackaday.io/project/11224/ Next, a controller for using hobby grade brushless motors for servo-type control. This could be a option between plain DC motors and expensive real servos: https://hackaday.io/project/11583-odrive-high-performance-motor-control/ Everybody, thanks for good input on this thread. Hopefully this will lead to something!

@MetalGear_Honk Great! I've been looking into FFB and have to agree there are not many projects around. I'd like to participate in development; I'm a bit low on available time, but have done professional work with AVR cores and other related things, and played around with USB HID, so I believe I could help. Do you have the code available on some repository? BR,