Ropay

Regretfully, I should not have mentioned anything about BMS. I wanted to allude more to the level of fidelity in the actual F16 aircraft that BMS have developed over the years. Despite coming across as so, I am not naive enough to assume that it's just a case of unplugging it from the prehistoric Falcon engine and then plugging it into DCS World 2.5. By "so easily" I meant that a lot of the ground work has been done by the BMS guys and it would be great to see some kind of collaboration between the two in terms of translating it over to DCS. Anyway, I know there are forums out there on this 'project partnership' between the two but I don't really want to get into that. I also don't know enough about BMS and the F16 development there so I am going to look at that now. Returning to the F-15, if Razbam are in the process of developing the Strike Eagle then here's to hoping that the Advanced Systems Model from that can be incorporated into the F-15C (obviously taking into account the differences between each variant).

Sorry, perhaps 'market saturation' was the wrong term. 'Module saturation' rather as in having a fully simulated F15C (ED) and then also an F15E (Razbam). The Flaming Cliffs A-10A and the DCS: A-10C worked fine because the latter could be regarded as a full simulation upgrade to the Flaming Cliffs module (ignoring the physical/technical differences between the two variants). Had the F15E a single seat cockpit, it would be an awesome upgrade to the C but also at the expense of the C variant's uniqueness in its Air to Air dedicated role. Hence I maintain that the F15C should be its own fully simulated module, and, to be quite frank and possibly controversial, the release of the Strike Eagle should be shelved. Ventus_Clu, I think my problem when I started this topic was I underestimated the intricacies of going from the Standard Systems Model to the Advanced Systems model. I was under the impression that the F15C was 'almost there' with its Professional Flight model and when I heard the mention of the F-16 in last week's newsletter after the launch of the F/A 18C instead of the attention now turning to the F-15C, I had a bit of a mope. Having worked in IT, I understand all too well that development has to be financially viable. I dunno, maybe I just assumed that everyone would want to buy a "DCS: F-15C Eagle" (gosh I love writing that..."DCS: F-15C Eagle...there it is again) As an aside, should BMS one day work together, with ED, I think their Falcon could so easily be absorbed into the DCS engine and viola, we'd have an F-16 in DCS. So much work has been done already and it would be shame to see it part of some competition between the two platforms. edit...sorry, you mentioned the F-16C "from previous military contracts". What F-16C is that, the one currently being developed by Belsimtek? (Usually I'm all for competition but in this case, I dunno, the sim community seems to get along really well.) In terms of the Flaming Cliffs Russian aircraft, there are 6 to choose from but from a FULL SIMULATION perspective, I believe they need to be partnered correctly with the likes of the A-10C, F-15C (once it's fully simulated) and the new F/A-18C. My proposal is the Su-25T, the MiG-29S and the Su-33. "WHHAAT, no Su-27??!!" I hear you cry. Well, the Su-33 would surely serve this purpose and we HAVE to have a DCS: MiG29. But, I digress!!!

Zhukov, that is really in-depth information, thank you. I wonder how much of that is already in place with the existing F15C or if it just uses a generic systems model shared by all the Flaming Cliffs 3 aircraft? I can understand this would take ages and, as DeathRaptor mentioned, maybe ED IS waiting for Razbam's F15E or even Belsimtek to pick up the C again. This kind of leads onto another question I had about how ED determines the 'quality' of a partner's project and how they could really 'use' the various pieces. Say Razbam release their Strike Eagle and then ED come along and release the F15C. Would people honestly buy both? The answer is probably yes but I fear we will start to over saturate the sim market if this happens and end up 'diluting' the experience and dedication of learning the ins and outs of even a single aircraft. ED picked the perfect duo of (western) aircraft when they developed Lock On for flight sim enthusiasts/casuals. The F15 and the A10; one for air superiority, the other to pound the ground. The addition of the F18 has added the aircraft carrier experience (with respect to the SU-33 module) and one day, with that elusive F15C Advanced Systems Model, the trinity will be complete. (Sorry, I'm waffling, I'm tired, I need to go to bed)

My question is innocent enough in the fact that we already have an F15C with a professional flight model; for years I've wanted to know what needed to be done to the standard systems model to upgrade it to an advanced systems model. From an emotional perspective, perhaps I am too much of a cowboy or not enough of a sim head to appreciate something like the L-39 Albatros for example (understandably a lot easier to develop in terms of red tape, avionics etc, I know). However, in the recent newsletter (1st June 2018), the bottom bit about an exciting future and the mention of the F16C, I was like "that's a typo right, they mean the F15C surely? But there's no Block 50 F15...hang on..". Hence why I created this thread. I am so happy about the release of the F/A-18C (admittedly I haven't bought it yet) but what got me going was the mention of the F16 when it just seems like a bit of dig at Falcon BMS. Saying all this, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes and I don't want to come across as naive and ungrateful. It just seems a shame as we have this existing F15C on the shelf (or Eagle in the cage rather) with amazing financial potential (I'm sure you'll agree) for ED/Belsimtek. Alfa, you are indeed correct about the SU-27 being the genesis of ED flight sim. As incredible as a fully simulated SU-27 may be, until I can read and understand Russian, I would feel unworthy to click around the cockpit of such an amazing aircraft. Haha. Sorry, forgot to say thank you for the info. Just to return to details, is it just the "Flight model" and "Systems model" that constitutes the flight simulator? i.e is there anything outside of these two models that needs to be taken into account or, in the case of the F15C, is it JUST the Systems model that needs upgrading (since we already have the Professional Flight model)? Sorry to ask such a specific question but I'm trying to understand how these simulators are built.

The F15E is a two seater and therefore will require some kind of dual co-op gameplay surely? I want to cold start an F15C with switches, taxi, take off, intercept other aircraft, then land again. I've dropped enough bombs with the A10C. Let's take it to the sky...but with the Advanced Systems Model. Am I missing something, is it more complicated than this or are ED/Belsimtek happy to leave the Eagle as a Flaming Cliffs module? Saintan, I hear where you're coming from regarding more FC3 type modules. Sometimes it is just great to fly the jet with the Professional Flight model and be done with it. Since I can't understand Russian (and hence a Russian cockpit), the SUs and MIGs in Flaming Cliffs are perfect in this regard (please Russian friends don't take offense to this, this is only in my naive, English speaking case). However, I have put off buying Flaming Cliffs for years because I am waiting for the F15C to be released as a full simulator module.

Here we go...another one. The F15C is my favourite jet of all time - a beautiful aircraft with such an elite air to air fighter status. It deserves its own module and when I read recently that one of the next fighters on the ED/Belsimtek calendar was the F16, I almost cried actual tears... "We already have BMS!!". For the love of God, why have we heard nothing of the F15 development when surely the update from the Standard systems model to the Advanced systems model is easier than developing an entirely new F16 module? My question is this, what needs to be done to the EXISTING F15 (Flaming Cliffs) module to turn it into a stand alone DCS module? i.e. something like the recently launched F18 equivalent? We already have the Professional Flight model so if the upgrade is only the systems model then what exactly does this involve? Assigning actions to mouse clicks in the cockpit? Radar? I only have the A10-C module and, as you can see, this is my first post, but just to hear some mention of the "F15" after the amazing release the of the F18 recently, would have been nice. Am I alone in this sentiment, please tell me if so as I don't want to come across as ungrateful? Also, I am not interested in the F15E Strike Eagle development by RAZBAM. I want the single seater F15C (and eventually the incredible and majestic SU27), the Flaming Cliffs US fighter that put ED on the combat flight sim map. Let's pay it its due respects.