Iron_physik

WT has the AIM-9L, and they also have the 9M in the files the performance matches their IRL counterparts thanks to like a ton of bug reports I myself wrote on the topic same with all the other sidewinder variants in WT. lol you got any proof of that? https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/468522-the-aim-9-sidewinder-missile-technology-history-and-performance/ War thunder Sidewinders match the performance figures in this thread near perfectly if you want me to datamine some of the WTs .BLK files of the missiles I can do that for you. now its up to you to check if my figures are accurate or not, because appearently im Lying? even though all data is based on original US sources (USAF+USN)

in the case of US IR-AAMs I am I made sure that the performance matches original manuals to near perfection meanwhile DCS copy pastes the performance of the AIM-9J onto the AIM-9M and only makes the 9M all aspect even though the 9M uses stronger Servos and a better wing design for better agility the 9X is also not agile enough

then why are mission makers not using older variants of airplanes for period correct missions.... oh wait because of game limitations and nobody is complaining about flying slightly to modern variants in the missions, because the differences are so miniscule. also lets not forget about damage models of ground vehicles vs large explosives, or the incorrect performance of many Air to Air missiles even war thunder does a better job there they manage to get bomb damage correct, and the kinematic and damage performance of WTs air to air missiles is modeled better.

you can disable them in the mission settings, however NVGs where normal equiptment of harriers in the timeframe you are talking about same with the moving map display

yup Kinda annoying to deal with that, specially when Primary sources are ignored to fit their own narrative or cheap tries of strawmen arguments and whataboutisms.

in germany we have a name for this: Erbsenzähler Bean counter in english its for people that take things way to seriously and think a little game is real life for a mission making perspective a plane thats backwards capable is better than being stuck with a old variant because the mission maker can always take certain weapons away, but he cant add weapons that where not used. I mean for vietnam servers we also have no Mig-21PFM, but nobody really seems to complain about the 21-BIS, because mission makers took R-60M from its loadout to balance it down. or nobody complaints about a VIGGEN, or AV-8B in 80-90s cold war servers because mission makers dont allow specific weapons to break immersion thats a better approach than being a bean counter and having to have every variant of every plane perfectly fitting for a specific mission not only is that more workload for devs, but also more expensive

its crazy that you constantly get these dates and numbers wrong its like you dont care for accuracy at all and I even gave you EVERY source you need, you still choose to ignore them. A-6E SWIP was first made in 1986 they made a total of about 70-80 SWIP models so you are off by a factor of 2 and no, All TRAMS where refit into WCSI airplanes by the 90s so to get it properly: TRAM: 1980-1986 -> 6 years WCSI: 1986-1997 -> 10 years SWIP: 1987-1997 -> 9 years the "bad and unhistorical" SLAM slinging variants had a longer service life than your classic TRAM you should prefer WCSI and SWIP then

^^ what everyone likes to forget: DCS is a darn video game, so you gotta live with less realism gameplay often comes before realism and in this case it makes more sense to give us a WCSI or SWIP intruder, because they are virtually identical apart from software upgrades that allow the SWIP to use Walleye, maverick and late HARPOON missiles.

*1980s SWIP or TRAM after AFC 552, a change done in the mid 80s How would it be unrealistic when it was a plane that actually was a thing and flew combat missions? also, it would not be outdated, I mean people still fly F-14s in the modern servers and do fine there, or they fly AV-8B NA harriers made in the same timeframe and also do totally fine even without GBU-54 or APKWS DCS's main timeframe is the early 90s which is the EXACT timeframe of the SWIP the SWIP is right at home on the persia gulf map *1980s upgrades get it right FFS the flight manual strongly disagrees here: the vast Majority of A-6E where WCSI with a fairly high amount of SWIPs im not making the definitions Pentagon does OV-10 tactical manual, same timeframe as the A-6 manual: by definition Iraq and vietnam where high thread its just that tactics and technology evolved to deal with the threads the definition is not about how many planes you lose, but what the enemy has and both Vietnam and Iraq had integrated air defences

EXACTLY! ontop of that: droping low alt iron bombs was the main mission of the SWIP in desert storm. most pictures you find of SWIPS is with these weapons loaded thats not true taking a look at the FLight manual reveals that there was 2 datalink pods AN/AWW-13 (introduced with SWIP): and the older AN/ARQ‑49 the older Pod existed for the TRAM WCSI, meaning that plane was capable of shooting, and guiding SLAM by itself that doesnt matter what matters is what the final version can carry, and the TRAM could carry SLAM, and they also used them so your "only low level plane" actually was one of the planes you are so strongly against, a SLAM shooter. funny, its like you totally ignore official pentagon reports that I already showed here in this thread Not only did the pentagon classify IRAQ as high thread throughout the war, NO the A-6 even bombing missions in the timeframe you claim they didnt fly. also, you may want to read up on the official definition of High thread enviroment not something some dude says. because "trust me bro" is not a source, where does he takes his information? he was only 1 guys out of thousands that took part in these operations just for you again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism lets take a unrealistic scenario and try to discredit your oponent comeon, you are better than that. first of all the A-6 always flies together with fighter cover, it even did so over vietnam while doing low level strikes next the A-6 has multiple different anti radiation missiles to choose from so a proper strike package would deal with such a enemy just fine

1 guy said it was outdated and that it would not survive the modern battlespace meanwhile in reality the aircraft he said was outdated did exactly that what he claims is impossible, fly in a high thread enviroment, do low level bombing runs and actually fly freaking SEAD missions. so he was literally wrong about it, and actual combat reports from washington prove that.

why is nobody here realising that the SWIP also mainly flew low level strike missions and barely used standoff weapons??? and that it does this exact job better than TRAMs due to software upgrades introducing things like Tadpoles to the VDI display for terrain avoidance help. and that your fancy TRAM/WCSI actually introduced the SLAM to the A-6 Fleet, not the SWIP.

https://www.intruderassociation.org/pdf/Every_A6_that_was_built.xls here the original download link of the file you can still do all of that with a SWIP just because its more modern doesnt mean its incapable of doing its original role I want to have the SWIP, because its the only intruder capable of using Walleyes for SLAM a late model TRAM (aka WCSI) is enough, but only SWIP has Walleye capability most if not all of the A-6 that served in the 80s where WCSI

if you would actually read real reports you would realize that droping Decoys was only 1 task the A-6 performed at night 0 they also where part in SEAD strikes firing HARMs and also striking iraqi airfields with bombs at low level. Just a little excerpt from: You likely cant get a more official source than this my source is this list of every A-6 model in service coming from the A-6 intruder accosiation: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BDCTaVcxTdvRZ7eDLv03ANhLzgLHuHWf/edit#gid=184788571 down at the bottom is a number of A-6E SWIP build in 1986-87

Then why did SWIPs do low level strikes during desert storm? one of the highest thread enviroments in that timeframe. infact there was only 7 uses of the SLAM during the whole of desert storm most of the strikes done by SWIP was either with unguided bombs, napalm or cluster bombs few times they used Mavericks and SKIPPER II (but thats something the TRAM also did) mid/late 80s SWIP with metal wings looks exactly the same as a A-6E TRAM that was used in all these 80s operations But it has more weapon loads due to its software upgrade. late TRAMS even had the missile panel that the SWIP got as I said, SWIP actually was just a software upgrade with slight revisions to the panels in the cockpit and later a revision to the wings the SWIP 1a was a later upgrade that was not initially planned for the SWIP the earliest SWIP was build 8th Jan 1986 and doing some research it apears early SWIPs indeed where part in praying mantis in 1988 (not 100% sure on that though)

the more modern models are still able to do that, infact they are better at it. a SWIP can do low level unguided bombs strike exactly like the TRAM can do, the only addition is that the SWIP can also carry more modern munition while staying mostly the same. it literally was just a software upgrade done in the mid to late 80s (first SWIP was made in 1986, about 10 years after TRAM) SWIP and TRAM served in the same amount of conflicts so saying the TRAM is more interesting than the SWIP doesnt really make a lot of sense intruder didnt retire because it was outdated, no it retired because of politicians killing it trying to push the A-12. the A-6 is one of the more capable planes to deal with high thread enviroments it literally was the main SEAD aircraft of the navy during desert storm and still went on to bomb targets in that area until 1993 many of the navy high ranking personell actually thought the A-6 went to soon and it left a big gap in the navies capabilities

in reality the SWIP didnt lose any capabilities though it only gained them. so just like earlier A-6 models the SWIP can still do, and did low level strikes at night with unguided weapons. Yes, the SWIP got the ability to use SLAM, Maverick, Walleye But this doesnt stop it from using the other weapons as well the fact that the SWIP gained the ability for more modern weapons actually makes it more interesting for DCS, because it can take part in more scenarios and be overall more usefull.

FIFY https://discord.gg/J8rv29bJ9h Enjoy!

I selected the proper timecode, just click play

here^^

here the missile panel in action on the SWIP

yep here the original confirmation a few pages back:

thanks, good to know^^ I checked the manual and here are the panels for a late TRAM / Early SWIP cockpit the Missile panel: AN/ARL-67 panel: New Warning lights: I also found the different fuzing panel:

the reticle in the sight of the A-6 can move to give the Pilot navigational info on the SWIP its mode got improved to also work with CCIP (though looking through the manual it could be that im wron on it, its not quite clear when CCIP was added)

cockpit layout wise the SWIP and TRAM are mostly identical its pretty much just internal wiring that changed to accept Walleye, Maverick, SLAM and HARM the only really difference are some smaller switches in the B/N station to select the new weapons and to view their feedback on the FLIR screen most of it was a software upgrade Late TRAMs even had many of the features retrofitted that SWIP had: this update actually makes the SWIP easier to use, because it is more optimzed. P.S. the SWIP also received CCIP, something the TRAM lacks