Are there any piloting careers that are good for introverts?

[Crescendo]

Sorry but this 'have a big hug and follow your dreams' is inaccurate

 

Yeah, because that's a fair characterisation of what people are saying. :doh:

 

unless you are going to sponsor yourself entirely then at some point you are going to have to go through a selection and if you want a job you will get an interview, they will base that selection on the personality profile I mentioned, the wrong personality in any cockpit can get people killed.

 

Validity of personality testing (which is a grey area itself) and financial issues aside, I don't see any reason why a person can't apply and submit themselves to any selection process. What's the worst that can happen? They say no? Big deal. Any sensible and properly prepared person will realise that rejection is always a possibility. If he passes, then presumably he will be just fine as a pilot by your metric, because this life-saving personality test is so rigorous and scientific after all.

 

You said yourself there is such a thing as an extroverted personality type that is not ideal in the cockpit, so clearly being introverted is not necessarily an immediate deal-breaker.

[bongodriver]

Validity of personality testing (which is a grey area itself)

The industry doesn't care how grey the area is, it has it's framework and it's rigid, they don't have time or the inclination to work on a case by case basis.

 

I don't see any reason why a person can't apply and submit themselves to any selection process

But the reality is there are reasons, you may not see them but they are there, however we all have the right to submit ourselves for those selection processes and that's fine.

 

What's the worst that can happen? They say no?

maybe even say yes, everything has a consequence.

 

sensible and properly prepared person will realise that rejection is always a possibility.

Hold on.....are you limiting this to a strict set of personality traits?

 

If he passes, then presumably he will be just fine as a pilot by your metric

Not my metric, just the one of my industry, he may pass and not be fine, nothing is perfect.

 

because this life-saving personality test is so rigorous and scientific after all.

Well it is, but not perfect.

 

You said yourself there is such a thing as an extroverted personality type that is not ideal in the cockpit, so clearly being introverted is not necessarily an immediate deal-breaker.

of the 4 profiles only 1 is selectable and it is stable extrovert.

[Crescendo]

I won't go point by point, as that can be tedious for both parties and devolve into pedantry. Suffice to say I understand your point that in your industry the system is the system (whatever it is) and it works well enough, although it isn't perfect and there may be consequences resulting from that imperfection as you noted.

 

Hypthetical: Should a person who passes the industry selection processes and is otherwise fully competent as judged by the industry, instead recuse himself because he considers himself to be an introvert?

 

To be clear, you aren't saying this and didn't say this, but one interpretation of your response to me is that because the selection process is workable but imperfect (i.e. someone more towards the introvert scale may slip through), the OP probably ought not to apply because he may be one of the 'false passes' that endangers people's lives.

 

Hold on.....are you limiting this to a strict set of personality traits?[

 

I don't understand what you are referring to or getting at here.

 

You said part of a selection process means passing tests as outlined by you in your previous posts. All I was saying in the part you quoted is that if someone doesn't pass a test, the failure itself should not be considered an out-of-the-ordinary shocking event, unless you're a narcissist who thinks success is 100% guaranteed. People fail things for all sorts of reasons all the time.

 

of the 4 profiles only 1 is selectable and it is stable extrovert

OK, this wasn't explicitly clear in your post ("could lack the key assertiveness required for certain situations" - emphasis mine), so it is.

 

your job is to not let yourself be pushed around and to make things go your way so you don't get overloaded with stress and pressure to ensure the safety of your flight, if you are an introvert you can't do that.

 

lack the key assertiveness required for certain situations

 

officers are not introverts, they must be able to take charge of a situation.

I find it hard to agree with these statements. Admittedly this is possibly an argument from incredulity. Admittedly I am not an expert, I don't train aircrew, I don't design the tests to select good aircrew, I don't have years of industry experience. Yet, I don't see anything about being an introvert that limits your ability to take charge and assume leadership positions in professional setting, stressful or otherwise. There are plenty of high-profile introverts in stressful leadership roles.

 

You say that introverts can allow themselves to be pushed around, but you could also turn the situation on its head and say that extraverts can push people around unjustifiably, and that that's the problem. I suppose this would fit the "unstable extrovert" archetype. This same pushiness could also be attributed to the "stable extravert", even though they are more likely to make the correct decision. Still, the stable extravert may assume they are correct, take charge confidently and win the allegiance (or obedience) of others, and then promptly kill everyone.

 

My point is no one should push anyone around for the sake of it; ideally (key word) it should be rational and meritocratic decision-making rising to the top.

 

Further, assuming "stability", the extravert will still have a tendency to take charge (which can go wrong as we have seen), and the introvert will still have the tendency to submit (which can go wrong as we have seen). Both are weaknesses depending on the context. So, why is the weakness of the extravert minimized, yet the weakness of the introvert maximized? Is it because the industry prefers a take-charge leadership decision to made right now, even if the decision is wrong? Is it better to confidently pull back on that stick until we stall into the ocean, or is it better to indecisively argue if we're doing the right thing? I can see why it might be better to do something rather than nothing (the "something" may be the right decision even if made for the wrong reasons), but we can all agree both situations are not desirable.

 

I guess I don't see why stable introverts in professional setting can't be trained and drilled with good CRM practices to overcome their weakness and conduct themselves assertively, just as the stable extraverts in a professional setting can't be trained and drilled with good CRM practices to ensure they address their weakness and listen to others when making a decision before potentially blinkering themselves.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Crescendo

[bongodriver]

Too much to reply to, but a short answer is that the industry is under no obligation to dedicate itself to converting people from introverts to extroverts when they have the option of selecting suitable candidates in the first place.

Another point that is being missed here is that I am not telling the OP to not bother seeking the career, I am simply telling him that an introvert personality is not suitable and it's up to him to change that.

You can make all the hypothesis you like on your own interpretations of introverts and extroverts, the fact remains that the industry does not hypothesise and works to a fixed set of requirements and that will be based on extensive studies.

[aaron886]

The need for an extroverted personality in aviation goes way beyond just social interaction, it's more to do with dealing with pressure and stress and when working as part of a crew a pilot is meant to be an authority, even if you are a First Officer you will be expected to be able to act as pilot in command, an introverted personality does not fit well with those requirements.

 

As a (young) professional pilot and a social introvert, I take issue with this statement. It shows your fundamental misunderstanding of what an introverted (particularly INTJ) personality type means. This does not mean socially abnormal or awkward, which is another story. An introverted person is someone who desires time alone/in reflection to "recharge," as opposed to an extravert (which is apparently the right spelling,) who needs to be around others for that purpose. I love working around other people, and I love the pace and intensity of the cockpit, but when I'm done working I want to go home and relax by myself.

 

An introverted person can be as equally skilled in the task of ADM as an extraverted person, and can make decisions just as well. (It's the "Thinking vs. Feeling" type discriminator that best describes a person's standard method of making decisions.) Similarly, an introverted person who has average social skills communicates just as well as someone who is extraverted... it's essentially unrelated. An introverted person is not averse to taking charge of a situation. I enjoy that responsibility and opportunities to speak up and perform, for example. So I repeat... your statement is misguided and mildly offensive. ;) Here's some study material that might give you some insight into the people you work with on the flight deck: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/info.html. I'm not sure which seat you sit in (or if you do,) but if you're the pilot in command I expect you would have a less shallow interpretation of the human mind if you want to maximize that resource.

 

Zak, there is no job in aviation that is off-limits to introverts, but every job in aviation and in most other fields is going to be a tough time for someone who is socially uncomfortable. YOU have to consider which one you are, and whether or not that means you will be comfortable in a wide variety of settings. You need to be honest with yourself, but it sounds to me like being physically sick around other people is social anxiety, not introversion. It's a type-A world out there in aviation, I can't pretend it's not.

 

Being an introvert does not mean you are shy, have poor communication skills, lack leadership potential, lack social skills, and lack confidence. Not at all. An introvert can excel in all those areas.

 

Crescendo - can't rep. :)

Edited September 2, 2014 by aaron886

[bongodriver]

So despite the fact I have on several occasions emphasised a separation from the social aspect, it seems that people think I am talking solely about that?

I didn't at any point even use the phrase socially abnormal or awkward.

The seat I sit in is irrelevant, single crew or multi crew the requirements are essentially the same.

[aaron886]

I'll just say this... the statement that airlines do not hire introverts is completely outrageous and false, at least in the US. Here, they hire based on the quality of your application, and if you perform satisfactorily in an interview and on technical/HR tests, they could care less whether you stay at home between trips or party in Ibiza.

 

I have more introverted airline pilot friends than I can count on two hands. I even know a handful of military pilots who are sworn introverts. On the other hand, nobody hires people who party too hard and turn in an application with a couple alcohol violations.

[ericoh]

Extroverted =/= Party 24/7.

 

Getting "physicaly sick" with social interaction is something more then being a little Introverted.

Edited September 2, 2014 by ericoh

[ZaltysZ]

Guys,

 

bongodriver uses Eysenck's definition of extravert/introvert, which is different from definitions (like of MBTI) most of you use. There is no point arguing if introvert is suitable as pilot, if your definitions differ. I have already written that I am ISTJ (according to MBTI), but I score as stable extravert (according to Eysenck's PQ). :)