Microsoft FF2 calibration issue

[mj3437]

My MFFB 2 joystick works well with all modules that I have flown. I am just starting to get to know the Su-27. I downloaded all the training missions for it and encountered a weirdness with my roll axis. The plane wants to roll right. The stick is calibrated and roll shows centered in the controls options BEFORE starting a mission. AFTER mission start it shows off centered roll:huh: I have included 2 screens showing the problem. Any ideas?

 

[mj3437]

No thoughts on this?

[DarkFire]

Have you calibrated the stick in windows? Not doing so can produce some very strange results, even if the stick is calibrated in DCS. I have to say though that I've never seen a stick calibration change between the GUI and in-game, that's weird. And it only happens with the Su-27?

[mj3437]

I checked calibration in Windows when I noticed this weirdness. I just loaded missions for the P-51 and the F-15 and have been flying the Huey for the last few months with no problems. It seems its a Su-27 problem. I thought it might be the training missions I just downloaded, but the stock Su-27 missions are affected also. I have read all the problems with trim, but this is in the roll axis not the pitch axis.

MJ

[Penshoon]

Is your physical stick also displaced to the direction of the roll? Can you trim it out?

[Penshoon]

Tip is also to remove your dead zone setting. Pretty sure that will only make the ffb dead zone bigger.

 

Edit: nope scratch that, didn't work as I thought it did.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Penshoon

[mj3437]

The stick is centered in both screens above. I haven't tried trimming it out because it doesn't seem to be a trim issue.

[DarkFire]

Are you using a force feedback stick? I don't, but I gather from various threads that FF sticks more or less break the trimming in the Su-27. Trimming in the Flanker is constant and essential so you might want to consider disabling it for that aircraft.

 

Try disabling the FF to see if it clears up the weird roll issue as well.

[mj3437]

Disabling FF did the trick for the roll issue. Now I can see what this trim issue is:joystick: I'm just starting with this module so be gentle. Getting used to no FF will take some time. My stick feels like a wet noodle without it:lol: That will have to be another thread.

Thanks for the replies.

MJ

[sobek]

That will have to be another thread.

 

How about 'no'? ;)

[OnlyforDCS]

So is this a known bug? Will it be addressed at some point? (I too have the FFB2 and would dearly like to fly the Su27 with FFB enabled).

[DarkFire]

Disabling FF did the trick for the roll issue. Now I can see what this trim issue is:joystick: I'm just starting with this module so be gentle. Getting used to no FF will take some time. My stick feels like a wet noodle without it:lol: That will have to be another thread.

Thanks for the replies.

MJ

 

Glad that sorted out the problem for you :)

 

A few tips on flying the Flanker:

 

1. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. The Su-27 responds well to smooth control inputs. Yanking the stick around will encourage it to depart or at least be barely controllable. It helps if you use input curve settings between 15 and 20 for pitch and roll - this will help you make accurate, controlled changes to flight attitude. By default the controls are VERY sensitive.

 

2. At first the Flanker might feel like it's barely controllable. It isn't at all, but because it's dynamically unstable it takes careful treatment and a lot of time to get comfortable with how it performs. Practice, practice, practice. I currently have about 25 hours flight time with the advanced flight model Flanker and I'm only just getting to the point where I can accurately fly a mission, i.e. stick to the assigned ground track, speed, altitude conditions etc.

 

3. Persevere. Once everything falls in to place for you the Flanker will actually become a real pleasure to fly. Once you get really used to the way it behaves it'll become apparent that if you push it out to the edges of its controlled flight envelope it's capable of doing things that no Eagle driver could ever dream of doing.

 

4. On take-off, when you raise the gear and flaps the Flanker has a tendency to pitch up. This can easily be countered by tapping the trim down key around 5 times prior to take-off.

 

5. Trim all the time. I don't have an issue with the need to trim. Yes it can be a pain, but for reasons good or bad the Sukhoi designers decided to make it behave that way and I think most people would agree that what we want is an accurate model of the Flanker. It really, really helps if you have a spare hat switch on your stick that you can use for pitch & roll trim.

 

Once you've done the training missions for the Flanker, the best way to become comfortable with the flight characteristics is to go in to the mission editor, create a new aircraft group that only contains you and to simply fly around the world practising simply flying the aircraft.

 

Anyway, good luck. Persevere with the Flanker and there will come a time when everything clicks in to place and it'll become a real pleasure to fly at that point. If you have any questions then do ask, there are a load of people here on the forum that probably have more flight hours in the Flanker than real VKS Flanker pilots...

[mj3437]

OnlyforDCS- Does your FFB2 also show this roll issue when FF is enabled?

DarkFire- Thanks for the tips. I'll try adjusting the curves as you suggest. Just getting used to the limp stick will be a big help.

MJ

[sydost]

Maybe a stupid question but have you swapped the force feedback channels in DCS from the controller's force feedback menu?

 

For me the trimming with MSFFB2 works very well in su27 even with force feedback enabled.

[mj3437]

Please expand. "force feedback channels"? "Controllers force feedback menu"?

My MSFFB2 was purchased from E-Bay, $50 with no software included.

MJ

[OnlyforDCS]

Please expand. "force feedback channels"? "Controllers force feedback menu"?

My MSFFB2 was purchased from E-Bay, $50 with no software included.

MJ

 

This is done in options in game. TBH I haven't flown the Su27 since I got the FFB2, so Ill check after work tonight and report back here.

[sydost]

Sure. No controller software needed and there really isn't any available. Go to dcs options and then the controller menu. Select your MSFFB2. At the bottom of the menu there should be a "ff menu" button. Click that and there is an option to swap the channels.

 

I am fairly certain this will fix your problems. What it does now as you have the swap option unchecked is that the pitch channel ffb effects go to roll and vice versa. If your mission uses air start the elevator is already trimmed for the higher speed at the beginning of the mission and thus gives you immediate roll.

 

My advice is to always use the swap option with every aircraft when using MSFFB2 stick to get the trimming forces to work properly. I think that on one module I have also inverted the pitch channel to get it working.

[mj3437]

Thanks for the answers! I just sat down at the PC and will try them out right now! I do miss the FFB.

I'll report in a little later.:thumbup::joystick:

[mj3437]

I'm happy to report that swapping axis in FFB menu worked! This ride is nice! Once I got over my ham fisted death grip, I had no problems.

Thanks everyone for your input.

2 more questions:

What does this swapping axis do to(for) the Huey? I haven't tried it yet.

Is there a thread started on FFB sticks and any settings/ tricks used for them?

Thanks again!

MJ

[sydost]

What does this swapping axis do to(for) the Huey? I haven't tried it yet.

Is there a thread started on FFB sticks and any settings/ tricks used for them?

 

I haven't flown huey for a while but basically swapping the axis does the same thing for all modules. It changes the trimming forces to correct axis when using MSFFB2 stick. Just swap the axis for every aircraft/helicopter and then the FFB trimming works like it should.

 

I think there isn't a thread started yet. Maybe should start one to "input and output" section and ask it to be stickied as this peculiarity causes problems quite often.

 

Good job for getting the problem fixed :thumbup: . Ain't the su27 great with proper FFB trimming.