garrya Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) Sorry garrya but I can't help but find it amusing that you think I'm confused when you can't tell the difference between a lift curve and an ps=0 curve. Anyway I'm done with the semantics, let's put the facts on table: The F-14's wings start to sweep back at around Mach 0.45, a fact to which you were completely oblivious garrya. At a speed of Mach 0.85 and at any altitude below 14,000 ft the F-14's wings are already at 55 deg sweep (50.5 deg >20 kft), and by Mach 0.94 they are fully swept at all altitudes. So F-14 can reach mach 2.4 bellow 14000 feet ? . Regardless of this however the lift curve remains higher than that of the F-16 & F-15, and that only because of its lifting body design. As an example at 35 kft and at a speed of Mach 1.0 (the point where the F-14's wings are already fully swept) the F-14's max instantanous load factor is 5.7 G's, where'as by comparison F-16C's max instantanous load factor at the same altitude and speed (DI = 50) is 5.5 G's. In short the F-14 maintains an ITR advantage even when its wings are fully swept. A superior ITR can only be achieved in one way, and that is with a superior lift to weight ratio, thus the conclusion of the above can only be one thing: that the F-14 has this advantage across the entire speed range. At its corner speed F-16 with CFT can pull about 8-8.3G at 30k feet Then again F-16 is AoA limited and as a small fighter it is affected more by weapon load than F-14 , F-15 Edited January 13, 2016 by garrya
molnibalage Posted September 3, 2018 Posted September 3, 2018 Where can be found these PE curves? I have a book about F-14A's PE curves with similar chart but this is with GE engine the later version. If it is payware I do not care I wish to buy. I'm very eager to see PE curces of F-14B/D.
garrya Posted September 4, 2018 Posted September 4, 2018 Where can be found these PE curves? I have a book about F-14A's PE curves with similar chart but this is with GE engine the later version. If it is payware I do not care I wish to buy. I'm very eager to see PE curces of F-14B/D. No need to buy anything, you can download here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/3krzacmc49cq4fo/F-14A+BD+PERF.pdf
molnibalage Posted September 4, 2018 Posted September 4, 2018 No need to buy anything, you can download here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/3krzacmc49cq4fo/F-14A+BD+PERF.pdf Big Thx!
Maverick Su-35S Posted April 1, 2019 Posted April 1, 2019 ...Wrong , negative stability increase lift because the tail now increase lift instead of counter it Exactly "garrya"..., but just like him, there are tens of others who understood the laws of physics and especially the aerodynamics so wrong and ironically it also makes sense to them (although very wrong). If you can't fight them with numbers (correct charts and accurate data), you cannot fight them with the knowledge that they don't have right! When you can't prove something with words, let the math do the talking. I have an insatiable passion for helping simulated aircraft fly realistically. Don't underestimate my knowledge before understanding what I talk about! Sincerely, your flight model reviewer/advisor.
garrya Posted April 3, 2019 Posted April 3, 2019 Hi, You misinterpreted the diagram. Those curves are for maximum (instantaneous) turn rates according to speed/Mach and altitude, not constant turn rates. These curves represent the maximum turn rate at critical AoA for a given speed (speed which normally drops due to excess drag)! It say quite clear right there what it is "sustain level turn", besides, the chart represents sustain G
Hummingbird Posted April 3, 2019 Posted April 3, 2019 Exactly "garrya"..., but just like him, there are tens of others who understood the laws of physics and especially the aerodynamics so wrong and ironically it also makes sense to them (although very wrong). If you can't fight them with numbers (correct charts and accurate data), you cannot fight them with the knowledge that they don't have right! :megalol::megalol: I suggest you two geniuses learn to interpret the charts first before you fling out statements like that.
Maverick Su-35S Posted October 30, 2022 Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) On 4/3/2019 at 3:24 PM, Hummingbird said: :megalol::megalol: I suggest you two geniuses learn to interpret the charts first before you fling out statements like that. ":megalol::megalol:" here you have it "genius", this one's complete, not just with the sustained (indeed sustained, not instantaneous) max G-load/turn rate, but also the constants graph: Edited October 30, 2022 by Maverick Su-35S When you can't prove something with words, let the math do the talking. I have an insatiable passion for helping simulated aircraft fly realistically. Don't underestimate my knowledge before understanding what I talk about! Sincerely, your flight model reviewer/advisor.
Maverick Su-35S Posted October 30, 2022 Posted October 30, 2022 On 4/3/2019 at 7:53 AM, garrya said: It say quite clear right there what it is "sustain level turn", besides, the chart represents sustain G Yes, my mistake! After looking at charts like these for decades once in a while you get confused. Most that I saw were usually showing the best instantaneous rates while the IAS can't be held (decreases), but yes, the title wasn't wrong as I initially supposed and it resembles the constant G-load that settles at a constant IAS and AoA for a given MSL. To not flood this thread with the same pictures again, you can find it a bit above as the initial link is gone so I've uploaded it as a picture. Cheers! o7 When you can't prove something with words, let the math do the talking. I have an insatiable passion for helping simulated aircraft fly realistically. Don't underestimate my knowledge before understanding what I talk about! Sincerely, your flight model reviewer/advisor.
Maverick Su-35S Posted October 30, 2022 Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) But speaking of witch..., I've just done a short test in DCS again (latest beta version) and "voilà"..., the F-15C at exactly 37000 (locked the fuel to unlimited in mission editor), the F-15C at sea level, at Mach ~0.5 and ~14.5 AoA has not 5.2..5.3 Gs as it should, but 5.9 which is a considerable difference to the real plane. Again and again, proofs show that most of our jet fighters in DCS require FM overhauls once in a while. For the sake of DCS's reputation, not for me...! F-15 higher than normal turn rate performances (probably lift vs AoA related).trkF-15 higher than normal turn rate performances (probably higher than normal lift slope for given drag vs AoA).acmi Edited October 30, 2022 by Maverick Su-35S When you can't prove something with words, let the math do the talking. I have an insatiable passion for helping simulated aircraft fly realistically. Don't underestimate my knowledge before understanding what I talk about! Sincerely, your flight model reviewer/advisor.
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