Any real current or retired Eagle drivers around that fly in DCS?

[Baz000]

Just wondering if there are some real current or retired Eagle drivers out there that I can ask many questions about the bird they flew, doesn't have to be the F-15C... Any Eagle pilots, even Mud Hens.

[Baz000]

What I really want to know are the visual reference points on the aircraft for flying in formation for fingertip and line abreast and echelon, etc... So you know how far forward and aft to go, what lateral displacement and stack, etc...

 

Can't seem to find any references to that on the net, yet.

[Baz000]

Something like this is what I am looking for... But in relation to the F-15 A/B/C/D/E airframe... Ideally, the F-15C.

[GGTharos]

If there are any real eagle pilots on here, it's not likely they'll out themselves.

 

For fingertip, put the front edge of the ramp on the pilot's shoulder, and line up the rear edges of the verticals simultaneously.

You want to stack where you can just see a bit of the top of the wing.

[mvsgas]

Look for Air Force Instruction 11-2f-15 series(V3 has some formation information), it might point you to the right direction. AFAIK, the information you seek might be in AFTTP 3.3.F15 if you can find it.

[Baz000]

I have the one for the F-117 that tells you the visual references, but I want the same thing for the F-15C... I also have the one for the F-16C.

[Baz000]

If there are any real eagle pilots on here, it's not likely they'll out themselves.

 

For fingertip, put the front edge of the ramp on the pilot's shoulder, and line up the rear edges of the verticals simultaneously.

You want to stack where you can just see a bit of the top of the wing.

 

Thanks

What about line abreast and Echelon?

[Baz000]

here is the combat aircraft fundamentals document for F-117... The one for the F-15C is AFTTP 3-3.4 volume 4

 

Volume 4 Combat Aircraft Fundamentals—F-15A/B/C/D

 

http://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB443/docs/area51_35.PDF

[GGTharos]

Thanks

What about line abreast and Echelon?

 

Line abreast is flown in tactical 1nm away ... echelon is a form of fighting wing (AFAIK).

 

Fighting wing: 500'-1500' in a 30-60 deg cone behind lead.

Echelon is the same, but you have to stick to the left or right side.

 

You figure out the aspect by watching the angle between the verticals and try to keep the 45 deg picture as much as possible.

[Baz000]

hmmm, the main formations are the ones I want to know visual references to, like fingertip, route, Echelon, fighting wing etc... These are the basic and the foundation formations.

 

The rest are tactical variations like line abreast (LAB), delayed 90 degree turns, delayed 45 degree turns, check turns, in place 90 degree turns, shackle, hook turns, cross turns, cross turn with shackle, fluid turns, high altitude tactical, wedge, fluid four formation, fluid four turns, 4 ship wall formation, 4 ship wall delayed turns, 4 ship wall hook turns, 4 ship box or offset box, box formation turns and hook turns, rejoins and tactical rejoins.

 

a ton of formations that could be used, but rely on the basics of the fingertip, route, and echelon formations.

[GGTharos]

Route is 2-4 ship-widths optimal but up to 500', 10 to 30deg aft, IIRC.

Fighting wing and echelon, as described above.

 

Turns in route are called echelon turns (there's confusion for you) and typically stack lead on the horizon unless the wingman being turned into has to bank so much that he cannot see lead.

[Baz000]

but doesn't each have a visual reference or checkpoint (navy calls it checkpoint I think...) on the lead / wing man you are following / covering... Starting with fingertip, then route, and then echelon.

[Baz000]

is this good fingertip? I was flying off a rock solid AI lol... I think I should have brought it in a little more so we would actually have our wingtips aligned? How can I tell how far out or in I have to go with my spacing? IE how open or closed the formation I'm flying should be.

 

 

[GGTharos]

Yes you're definitely too far but good start.

 

You should have 3'-4' lateral spacing between wingtips ... certainly no overlap. You'll nail the distance correctly when you line up the visuals ... which brings me to:

 

looks like I made a mistake...line up the front edges of the verticals ... you should be able to just see the forward edge of the far stab. As before, front edge of intake ramp on pilot's shoulder.

[Baz000]

whats the reference I should look for when flying route formation?

 

Which is basically line abreast but closer, from my observations anyways...

 

Why ED never added this type of information to any of the manuals is beyond me... It would make hunting for this information less of a hassle, and would aid in flying with your buddies online.

[Baz000]

the verticals are the vertical stabilizers? and when you say I should just see the forward edge of the far stab, are you talking about the vertical stabilizer?

 

What do I use as a visual reference for the stack? The fingertip is flown at a lower stack than lead but 2 and 3 are stacked the same and 4 is stacked lower than 2 and 3 tin a 4-ship

 

Trying to get the visuals perfect for those 3 formations because that is the basic building blocks for the tactical formations which come later down the line...

[GGTharos]

Yes, the vertical stabilizers :)

 

For the stack, you want to just be able to see the top of the wing.

 

For route you're not flying LAB, you're flying the same line as fingertip or a bit aft (10 to 30 deg).

[Baz000]

Seems like it is flown no further forward than LAB and no further aft than extended fingertip line as far as the angles go according to this... And a spacing of a minimum of 2 F-15C wingspans (2-ships) out to a maximum of 500 ft... So the question is what the visual references would be for LAB and what 500 ft spread would look like.

 

6.14. Route Formation. A route formation (Figure 6.4.) is flown to enhance clearing and visual lookout,

increase flight maneuverability, and ease the completion of inflight checks, radio changes, and other

cockpit tasks. Lead will send wingmen to route with a radio call or visual signal. Route is flown from

two-ship widths of spacing out to approximately 500 feet. Fly no farther aft than the extended fingertip

line, no farther forward than line abreast, and, when wings level, maintain a level stack. On the inside of

a turn, stack below lead’s POM only as necessary to keep lead in sight. On the outside of a turn, maintain

the same vertical references used in echelon. In a three- or four-ship formation, number 2 sets lateral spacing

for the formation. Number 3 should fly line abreast with number 2, matching lateral spacing from

number 1. Number 4 should line up the helmets of numbers 3 and 1. Lead should limit bank angle to 60

degrees with wingmen in route.

[Baz000]

Didn't ED have subject matter experts that were F-15 pilots?