Tactics vs F-16

[Horns]

I've been able to use the F Pole maneuver fairly successfully against Russian ordnance, but I can't quite work out how to successfully engage against F-16s. The AIM-120s allow them to fire NEZ snapshots from outside my S130s range, their AIM-9s have a greater range than the Magic 2s, and when I go defensive to evade these missiles the F-16s are comparable enough to the M2Ks speed and maneuverability that they wind up getting on my tail and chasing me down with guns.

 

I know many must have found a way to succeed with the Mirage 2000 against the F-16s, so if anyone is willing to share any effective tactics I'd greatly appreciate it.

[jojo]

From what I read, Greek pilots say thar the Mirage maneuvers better than F-16 above FL200.

Attract them at high altitude, FL300 to FL360 is good.

 

Against AI use jammer to delay F-16 shoot. Cut it at 20Nm (burn through) to avoid attracting Fox 3 in HOJ.

 

Shoot Super 530D around 20-22Nm around M1.2 or more if you can and crank in dive -20 to -30 degrees. Bleed speed down to M0.9 (maintain good turn rate) during the maneuver (use air brake if necessary)

When AMRAAM goes pit-bull (M on Serval) reverse the turn (around 6G with AB to avoid end up being a sitting duck with no speed) to bleed missile's energy.

You should level off around 15 000ft to 20 000ft.

 

Usually AI is lazy and just try to beam instead of pump, and if you manage to stay way below him, he should eat the Super 530D after around 40s of flight time (give or take).

 

F-Pole range (range to target at Super 530D impact) would be around 11Nm (+/- 1Nm).

Fox 3 (AIM-120/ R-77) in this set up would catch you around 12Nm in this set up.

That's why you need ti reverse you turn during crank/ F-Pole maneuver.

 

Then you have to decide between pump or recommit.

You can try to stay in the beam wings level to asses the situation on your Serval for a few seconds.

But the best is to pump and have a wingman to cover you.

Putting AI wingman in trail formation and order "cover my 6" while you pump should do the job.

 

With a flight of 4, the box formation should be ok.

2 ahead to fight first, and 2 behind to cover.

[jojo]

J-11 with jammer and R-77 is interesting opponent too.

[Horns]

J-11 with jammer and R-77 is interesting opponent too.

 

That is awesome, exactly the info I was looking for!

 

Thanks, much appreciated

[jojo]

Do you manage to handle F-16 now ? :joystick:

[Horns]

Do you manage to handle F-16 now ? :joystick:

 

Not yet, but I’m doing much better than I was, thanks. I haven’t been able to learn what the pump manoeuvre is, so when I do that might make the difference.

[jojo]

Ah sorry, the pump is just just when you turn away 180 degrees.

1 minute will exhaust most missiles.

It’s also useful to keep some separation to use your BVR missiles. You can climb back to regain the height lost during the crank.

 

So the basic sequence in BRV is: shoot/ crank/ (beam)/ pump/ recommit.

As I said, it works better if your wingman covers you during the pump.

If you do you final crank and pump turns by the left, recommit by turning right.

Because if you turn left again you will recommit on the same axis as your wingman.

If you recommit by turning right you may flank your target.

 

If you do:

- shoot/ crank/beam/ recommit

it’s more daring because you will recommit inside AIM-120 NEZ.

 

In any case 1 Vs 1 / Fox 1 Vs Fox 3 is difficult.

Fox 1 should try to achieve numerical superiority Vs Fox 3.

[Horns]

Ah sorry, the pump is just just when you turn away 180 degrees.

1 minute will exhaust most missiles.

It’s also useful to keep some separation to use your BVR missiles. You can climb back to regain the height lost during the crank.

 

So the basic sequence in BRV is: shoot/ crank/ (beam)/ pump/ recommit.

As I said, it works better if your wingman covers you during the pump.

If you do you final crank and pump turns by the left, recommit by turning right.

Because if you turn left again you will recommit on the same axis as your wingman.

If you recommit by turning right you may flank your target.

 

If you do:

- shoot/ crank/beam/ recommit

it’s more daring because you will recommit inside AIM-120 NEZ.

 

In any case 1 Vs 1 / Fox 1 Vs Fox 3 is difficult.

Fox 1 should try to achieve numerical superiority Vs Fox 3.

 

Wow, thank you so much, I’ve been struggling to put together a game plan for weeks. Will be away from my PC for a few hours, but I can’t wait to try this, very much appreciated!

[jojo]

If you’re not already using it, I advise you to use TacView to review your fights and learn from your mistakes.

The free version is already very useful.

[Horns]

If you’re not already using it, I advise you to use TacView to review your fights and learn from your mistakes.

The free version is already very useful.

 

Cheers, I've been able to successfully defend against AMRAAMs a few times now!:pilotfly: Thanks for the help and patience O7

 

I did have Tacview but haven't used it properly in the Viper fights. It has definitely helped me see what's going on and when I've successfully notched. :smartass:

[defeatist99]

From what I read, Greek pilots say thar the Mirage maneuvers better than F-16 above FL200.

Attract them at high altitude, FL300 to FL360 is good.

 

Against AI use jammer to delay F-16 shoot. Cut it at 20Nm (burn through) to avoid attracting Fox 3 in HOJ.

 

Shoot Super 530D around 20-22Nm around M1.2 or more if you can and crank in dive -20 to -30 degrees. Bleed speed down to M0.9 (maintain good turn rate) during the maneuver (use air brake if necessary)

When AMRAAM goes pit-bull (M on Serval) reverse the turn (around 6G with AB to avoid end up being a sitting duck with no speed) to bleed missile's energy.

You should level off around 15 000ft to 20 000ft.

 

Usually AI is lazy and just try to beam instead of pump, and if you manage to stay way below him, he should eat the Super 530D after around 40s of flight time (give or take).

 

F-Pole range (range to target at Super 530D impact) would be around 11Nm (+/- 1Nm).

Fox 3 (AIM-120/ R-77) in this set up would catch you around 12Nm in this set up.

That's why you need ti reverse you turn during crank/ F-Pole maneuver.

 

Then you have to decide between pump or recommit.

You can try to stay in the beam wings level to asses the situation on your Serval for a few seconds.

But the best is to pump and have a wingman to cover you.

Putting AI wingman in trail formation and order "cover my 6" while you pump should do the job.

 

With a flight of 4, the box formation should be ok.

2 ahead to fight first, and 2 behind to cover.

 

To add to this for WVR, the mirage is also a much better angle fighter than the F-16 at pretty much any altitude unless you are heavy and they aren't. It's got a couple degrees instantaneous per second over the F-16. Play for snapshots. If they go vertical extend at max climb to mitigate it's energy advantage. It's climb rate is better than an F-16's although the zoom will still be faster, but it eats energy. You should be able to fairly easily beat a 16 in a one circle fight or if you can drag him into the slow fight.

 

If you find yourself on the defensive WVR I've had really good results with using a defensive spiral to drag them to the deck and forcing them into a flat scissor. There isn't a single fighter in DCS that can beat the mirage in a flat scissor.

[Horns]

To add to this for WVR, the mirage is also a much better angle fighter than the F-16 at pretty much any altitude unless you are heavy and they aren't. It's got a couple degrees instantaneous per second over the F-16. Play for snapshots. If they go vertical extend at max climb to mitigate it's energy advantage. It's climb rate is better than an F-16's although the zoom will still be faster, but it eats energy. You should be able to fairly easily beat a 16 in a one circle fight or if you can drag him into the slow fight.

 

If you find yourself on the defensive WVR I've had really good results with using a defensive spiral to drag them to the deck and forcing them into a flat scissor. There isn't a single fighter in DCS that can beat the mirage in a flat scissor.

 

Fantastic, thanks for this info. It's great to know that the Mirage has a move that should give it an advantage over everything else, now I know what to practice and perfect :joystick: Appreciated :)