Today I fired 20 amraams =(

[GGTharos]

No, basically the missile normally has a 1-way datalink (ie. it can only receive infromation) which is used to guide the missile near the target with information sent from the launching aircraft.

 

With 2-way datalink, the missile can send info back and tell you what it's doing - has it lost lock? Is it confused? Does it have a lot of targets to pick from? Where is that missile, exactly? And then your computer can respond to it and say 'hey, your target's here' or something similar (because normally once the seeker goes active datalink info is no longer processed)

[GGTharos]

GGTharos wrote:

"Also, the AMRAAM's active range against an aircraft is about twice what it is in LO. "

My point exactly. These type basic flaws should be addressed/fixed without some sort of major debate or a thread with this many pages/posts to get it done. The A2A combat is what the sim is about. If the only US ture flyable A2A jet is crippled from the start, whats the point of calling it a sim, its just a game then. Damn pretty as it is, still just a game.

 

This in and of itself isn't a huge issue right now, but every detail that gets fixed up ...

 

 

I can understand if the russian-made sim is a little bias toward the russian side but come on now. Lets play fair please.

 

 

It was a programming/publisher requirements issue, not bias ... I'm not going to into it though.

 

Suffice it to say ED gets blasted on the RUssian forums for being too biased towards USA, believe it or not.

[Geier]

No, basically the missile normally has a 1-way datalink (ie. it can only receive infromation) which is used to guide the missile near the target with information sent from the launching aircraft.

 

With 2-way datalink, the missile can send info back and tell you what it's doing - has it lost lock? Is it confused? Does it have a lot of targets to pick from? Where is that missile, exactly? And then your computer can respond to it and say 'hey, your target's here' or something similar (because normally once the seeker goes active datalink info is no longer processed)

 

Wow - it sounds awesome. Is this 120D already used by the USAF?

[GGTharos]

I believe it will be entering service very soon. It is a pretty new missile. :)

It also -supposedly- sports a 50% larger rocket motor (so faster -and- longer ranged) as well as software updates and I believe some hardware updates for navigation/tracking/eccm, and I think an improved fuze and warhead and greater HOBS capability. It's really almost like a new missile.

 

Ah, and ... it'll likely be integrated with JHMCS ;)

[markriley]

Why would you say "This in and of itself isn't a huge issue right now, " about a missle in a Sim to be about half of the effective active range, on a thread about the missles shortcomings?

[Geier]

My point exactly. These type basic flaws should be addressed/fixed without some sort of major debate or a thread with this many pages/posts to get it done. The A2A combat is what the sim is about. If the only US ture flyable A2A jet is crippled from the start, whats the point of calling it a sim, its just a game then. Damn pretty as it is, still just a game.

I can understand if the russian-made sim is a little bias toward the russian side but come on now. Lets play fair please.

 

As for me F15's radar achievement is the most realistic among SFM planes , especially in comparsion with Mig29 and Su27s' ones.

[GGTharos]

As for me F15's radar achievement is the most realistic among SFM planes , especially instead of Mig29 and Su27.

 

Nope, no it isn't ... apaprently it underperforms the real thing to the point where ... according to what I heard it's 'more like a MiG or Flanker radar ... the real F-15 radar will see a mig with a mountain background between 60-80nm away'.

 

And I won't even go into all the missing features and alleged ECCM capability :)

[Geier]

Why would you say "This in and of itself isn't a huge issue right now, " about a missle in a Sim to be about half of the effective active range, on a thread about the missles shortcomings?

 

As far I know, Aim 120C will be fixed in the BS according to the real figure;)

[GGTharos]

Why would you say "This in and of itself isn't a huge issue right now, " about a missle in a Sim to be about half of the effective active range, on a thread about the missles shortcomings?

 

Because all the missile sensors are the 'same'. In other words, at least there's no discrepancy there from missile to missile.

 

Right now, missile countermeasure rejection is horrid, and kinematics are yucky too. I'm just saying active range wouldn't be on the top of my list of things to fix, personally.

[markriley]

As for me F15's radar achievement is the most realistic among SFM planes , especially instead of Mig29 and Su27.

 

 

I agree with you there, but what good is the best radar in the world without the missle to go with it. If the missles in-Sim performace is degraded then the radar just lets you see how far away your enemy is launching at you while you still are waiting to get below 15 miles.

will check back tonight, back to work for me now.

[Geier]

Nope, no it isn't ... apaprently it underperforms the real thing to the point where ... according to what I heard it's 'more like a MiG or Flanker radar ... the real F-15 radar will see a mig with a mountain background between 60-80nm away'.

 

And I won't even go into all the missing features :)

 

Ah, I know these features very well:)

 

I meant the way of radar's scanning and locking. I can say that when you lock the bandit with Mig29's radar 90% that there will be no breaking lock. But in F15 - especially in TWS - when the bandit comes to 20-25nm range - locking wil breake en most of cases:(

[GGTharos]

I would actually suggest to you that someone's breaking that lock on purpose for you ...

 

or you're letting'em slip out of the scan zone.

[vistrel]

I meant the way of radar's scanning and locking. I can say that when you lock the bandit with Mig29's radar 90% that there will be no breaking lock.

 

Not true. Do you play online ? I have seen numerous cases where people would rape your lock. I even know one guy who does it really good. ;)

[Geier]

Not true. Do you play online ? I have seen numerous cases where people would rape your lock. I even know one guy who does it really good. ;)

 

Of course online flight.

Why not? Hehe - but the situation changes when I drive Mig29. And it doesn't matter A or C

Tharos the bandit was ahead of my plane - and I can see him by my eyes. As a result I had to use the VS to kill him:(

[Frostie]

So the proof for an ubber AMRAAM is based on

 

AMRAAM's pwning Mig-21/3's

A couple of R-27's being crap in Eritrea-Ethiopia

An F-15 pilot saying so (though he's never engaged Flankers or possibly killed anything hostile)

Because of western bias to anything western

 

strong case:music_whistling:

 

If the range is short and speed slow obviously it needs increasing.

Im not anti-AMRAAM, I just don't buy into the problems being just about one missile.

 

Radar YES.

[markriley]

As far I know, Aim 120C will be fixed in the BS according to the real figure;)

 

Well if the sim really is to be modeling the 120C version and not the A/B, then we really do have a problem with range. The 120C has a range of aprox 60 miles (104km). Hell i would be happy to get the range that the A/B are supposed to be able to go in the sim.

Jammers/ ecm/ radar etc are all great to have working the best a sim can replicate, but the common denominator for those things is the missile itself; it needs to be modeled right before the other things come into play.

[markriley]

"Im not anti-AMRAAM, I just don't buy into the problems being just about one missile."

 

The Aim-7 suffers the same type issues as far as range goes. and thats really all the US side has to work with. Im sure the other missles in the sim need work as well, but problems should be fixed in the order of the most screwd up fixed first and so on.

[GGTharos]

So the proof for an ubber AMRAAM is based on

 

AMRAAM's pwning Mig-21/3's

A couple of R-27's being crap in Eritrea-Ethiopia

An F-15 pilot saying so (though he's never engaged Flankers or possibly killed anything hostile)

Because of western bias to anything western

 

strong case:music_whistling:

 

 

Far stronger than yours.

 

If the range is short and speed slow obviously it needs increasing.

Im not anti-AMRAAM, I just don't buy into the problems being just about one missile.

 

Radar YES.

 

People happen to keep asking about one missile. ;)

[GGTharos]

Well if the sim really is to be modeling the 120C version and not the A/B, then we really do have a problem with range. The 120C has a range of aprox 60 miles (104km).

 

... When you drop it from orbit? ... that number just does -not- add up :)

 

Hell i would be happy to get the range that the A/B are supposed to be able to go in the sim.

 

Certainly the game's 'C' under-performs that, yes - it's a factor of things though, not just missile kinematics.

 

Jammers/ ecm/ radar etc are all great to have working the best a sim can replicate, but the common denominator for those things is the missile itself; it needs to be modeled right before the other things come into play.

 

Yep ... if people don't respect missiles, there's not much point in arming them.

[markriley]

I dont see anything here about droping things from space.

 

 

Data for AIM-120A/B/C:

 

AIM-120A/B

AIM-120C-5

Length

3.66 m (12 ft)

Wingspan

53.3 cm (21 in)

44.7 cm (17.6 in)

Finspan

63.5 cm (25 in)

44.7 cm (17.6 in)

Diameter

17.8 cm (7 in)

Weight

157 kg (345 lb)

Speed

Mach 4

Range

50-70 km (30-45 miles)

> 105 km (65 miles)

Propulsion

Hercules/Aerojet solid-fueled rocket

Warhead

23 kg (50 lb) WDU-33/B blast-fragmentation

18 kg (40 lb) WDU-41/B blast-fragmentation

 

 

 

Speed

Mach 4

Range

AIM-120A/B: 75 km (45 mi)

AIM-120C-5: 105 km (65 mi)

AIM-120D: >180km (112 mi

[GGTharos]

And where did you get this wonderful work of fiction? :)

[markriley]

http://www.answers.com/topic/aim-120-amraam

 

and scroll down to chart on this link

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-120.html

[markriley]

and again the same chart on the right side of the screen with all the specs on Wikipedia

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-120_AMRAAM

[Frostie]

http://www.answers.com/topic/aim-120-amraam

 

and scroll down to chart on this link

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-120.html

Did you read it all bud,:thumbup:

 

Note: Data given by several sources show slight variations. Figures given below may therefore be inaccurate! Especially the range figures are rough estimates only.

 

and Wikipedia is my fav source of there or there abouts estimate info.

[markriley]

R-77, 27EM/ET/ER, R-33

 

Do these russian missles have thier ranges represented accurately in Lockon? I dont fly the russian planes so I cant say. Specifically the R-77 because it is active and not SAR (to compare it with the 120 being active). Does the R-77 have good p/k over 15-18 miles or is the same as the 120. They are both supposed to be at aprox 50km (the 120 50-70km).

And Damn at the 70km 27ET IR guided. The US has two BVR options in lockon and they should perform (within reason) as rated to be considered a combat sim.

So can ED fix the situation with the 120 or is the official answer going to be something like:

"Certainly the game's 'C' under-performs that, yes - it's a factor of things though, not just missile kinematics."

Whatever the factor of things is needs to be fixed to really title this as LOM Air Combat. Air to Ground is great. Love the Sim as a whole, just want my 15 to be what its supposed to be, an air superority fighter.