Horten 229

[dvw]

Hi Everyone,

 

I remember hearing a story a few years ago that the Horten 229 fought a mock dogfight against a 109 or 190, is this true? Can anyone find a source for this information?

 

Many thanks

[QuiGon]

AFAIK only the 229v2 every flew with its own engines and only 3 or 4 times. I would be really suprised if those test flights already included mock dogfights.

[dvw]

Thanks for your reply,

 

I was reading the Myhra book about the Horten Brothers, he says that the Horten test pilot Ziller flew the (229) V2 "numerous times" and by mid February 1945 he had flown the V2 a dozen or more test flights following the initial test flight program of December 44/January 45. I figured if they did fly the aircraft that much there was the possibility of the fight happening.

 

As you say, if it was still in early testing maybe the mock battle never really did happen.

[QuiGon]

Hmm, "A dozen or more test flights" is more than the 3-4 test flights that people in this thread have sourced: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=136404

It would make such a mock dogfight a little bit more likely.

[dvw]

Hi,

 

The sources for the above mentioned source that I was quoting are Myhra's direct interviews with the Brothers Reimar and Walter.

 

Not to contradict the individual that stated that the V2 flew 3-4 times of course, I would be interested to see where the 3-4 number came from. I looked through that area of the form but found no source of where he got the number from, would be interested to know though just to get the facts on the planes straight.

[QuiGon]

Well, I would say you have a pretty solid source there :D

[dvw]

https://i.imgur.com/bf7dPv3.jpg

 

https://imgur.com/VklnykI

 

I took pictures of the relevant pages if you are interested!

[QuiGon]

Very interesting indeed, thanks a lot! The mocku dogfight statement was not from the book, right?

I still find it very unlikely that mock dogfights would have been flown at such an early stage of development.

[dvw]

It is a very good book and i'd really recommend it, I'm debating wether to get his other books about the Hortens. The dogfight thing came from a pair of people that I spoke with about the 229 and maybe a book I read as a kid- Basically it's a story i've heard a number of times from different places but got curious about confirming or proving it false.

 

I agree that the battle would have been quite unlikely, though I won't rule it out as totally impossible given the rather unorthodox nature of the whole Horten operation and chaos generally in Germany at that time.

 

One other thing from a review of the 229 books he wrote-

 

"Another refreshing voice is that of Rudolph Opitz, also a pilot, and one with experience in unconventional aircraft. "Any one of the old timers who flew Horten sailplanes ... knew that the Horten all-wing flying characeristics are horrible," he said. "Anyone who came from the outside and flew the Horten all-wing aircraft found that the aircraft flew, but that was about all. The All these aircraft required considerable changes, but the Horten brothers would never listen."

[dvw]

I love the Horten's work and think they made really really beautiful airplanes and hope Opitz is wrong but suspect he might be right.

[QuiGon]

I love the Horten's work and think they made really really beautiful airplanes and hope Opitz is wrong but suspect he might be right.

Probably. There must be a reason why flying wings are so rare and pretty much the only other military flying wing jet is a Stealth Bomber that doesn't have to maneuver much.

[dvw]

Sorry to keep bothering you but do you know if they're still working on the DCS version of the 229?

[QuiGon]

Sorry to keep bothering you but do you know if they're still working on the DCS version of the 229?

I don't think so. I'm not sure though if it is has been canceled entirely or just put on ice.