Mission 11 - confusing ATC

[Qiou87]

Hi @Badger633,

 

Loving the campaign so far. You clearly stepped up your game from the previous two and it shows, I am really enjoying myself.

 

I noticed some small problem in M11, taking off from the airport at Khasab: ATC gives me the full clearance (taxi onto the runway, backtrack and line up & wait for take-off clearance). This is, in fact, dangerous, as the wingman has not taken off at this point. I went a bit fast on taxi just to confirm my suspicion and I could taxi up to the runway entrance before he went past by me to take off. Clearly if I was distracted I would have been crushed by him.

Then, as I lined up  after taxiing to the end of the runway 01, I waited (accelerated 5min). No take-off clearance. Finally I pushed the throttles and got the clearance about 100m into my take-off roll (approximately once I passed taxiway Bravo).

 

My advice to solve this:

- Initial clearance: Ford 110, tower, you are cleared to taxi via Bravo to Runway 01. Hold short Runway 01 (the readback from Ford needs to include "hold short runway 01" as this is a very crucial instruction, again for realism).

- Once the wingman has taken off (can use a trigger zone at the end of the rwy for that probably, unit in zone), clearance to enter the active, backtrack to the end of the runway, line-up and wait.

- once the player is at the end of the runway (another trigger zone with a timer to give some time for the 180° and line-up), give the take-off clearance. Off course that trigger zone could be a little bit bigger to allow some room (not everyone will want to backtrack all the way to the area dedicated for the 180°, after all we are in a fighter jet not a big airliner).

- alternatively once the runway is clear of the wingman, there is no need to line-up and wait. You can directly give clearance to backtrack and take-off at the pilot's discretion.

 

I just thought this would make for a more realistic flow. I really like that you changed things around on this mission, having the player land at an airfield (a private joke in my squadron is about the F/A-18's "antisquid" system, of course "Anti-skid" that you need to activate when landing on a runway - those squids are so slimey they make you swerve all around when you land . But since this is a civilian airport it should follow civilian ATC procedures, even a bit simplified, and not give me clearance to crash into my wingman.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Qiou87

[Badger633]

8 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

Hi @Badger633,

 

Loving the campaign so far. You clearly stepped up your game from the previous two and it shows, I am really enjoying myself.

 

I noticed some small problem in M11, taking off from the airport at Khasab: ATC gives me the full clearance (taxi onto the runway, backtrack and line up & wait for take-off clearance). This is, in fact, dangerous, as the wingman has not taken off at this point. I went a bit fast on taxi just to confirm my suspicion and I could taxi up to the runway entrance before he went past by me to take off. Clearly if I was distracted I would have been crushed by him.

Then, as I lined up  after taxiing to the end of the runway 01, I waited (accelerated 5min). No take-off clearance. Finally I pushed the throttles and got the clearance about 100m into my take-off roll (approximately once I passed taxiway Bravo).

 

My advice to solve this:

- Initial clearance: Ford 110, tower, you are cleared to taxi via Bravo to Runway 01. Hold short Runway 01 (the readback from Ford needs to include "hold short runway 01" as this is a very crucial instruction, again for realism).

- Once the wingman has taken off (can use a trigger zone at the end of the rwy for that probably, unit in zone), clearance to enter the active, backtrack to the end of the runway, line-up and wait.

- once the player is at the end of the runway (another trigger zone with a timer to give some time for the 180° and line-up), give the take-off clearance. Off course that trigger zone could be a little bit bigger to allow some room (not everyone will want to backtrack all the way to the area dedicated for the 180°, after all we are in a fighter jet not a big airliner).

- alternatively once the runway is clear of the wingman, there is no need to line-up and wait. You can directly give clearance to backtrack and take-off at the pilot's discretion.

 

I just thought this would make for a more realistic flow. I really like that you changed things around on this mission, having the player land at an airfield (a private joke in my squadron is about the F/A-18's "antisquid" system, of course "Anti-skid" that you need to activate when landing on a runway - those squids are so slimey they make you swerve all around when you land . But since this is a civilian airport it should follow civilian ATC procedures, even a bit simplified, and not give me clearance to crash into my wingman.

 

Hi Qiou 87

 

Thanks for the kind words. Yes spent a lot of time raising the bar somewhat with this one. Hopefully each new campaign will surpass the last.

 

Note your comments regarding the taxi clearances. Did you use a warm start because in testing you need to be going somewhat to get to the hold having carried out full navigational set up?  Agreed though I will introduce a hold message  linked to the movement of 420 when I can, won't be the next update though, which is imminent I have already issued my updates for that one.. 

 

Double checked the ATC message for the 'cleared take off' message. Firstly you have to taxi to the end of the runway ( if you follow the  taxi line on the runway you will pass through this zone.) This will then allow activation of the take off message when you pass through the take off zone. So if you then continue along the taxi line route which does a 180 in the wide area of runway as you return to the centre line you will get the take off message straight away as you are then in the take off message zone). What is strange the take of message activation zone starts 388ft from the end of the runway  and extends to 11354 ft from the end of the runway. The centre of the taxi way entrance is some 1742 ft from the end of the runway so you should be getting message well before this. Try it again, if you are getting this problem can you send me a track so I can see what is going on. Never noticed a problem previously with this one.  

 

Thanks for your comments. I am introducing a lot of little adjustments to improve the campaign in the next imminent update. Also in the update is a third version of the campaign which will be free with the main campaign. This version will have increased difficulty levels.

 

Hope you enjoy the rest of the campaign 

 

Badger633 

[Qiou87]

1 hour ago, Badger633 said:

Hi Qiou 87

 

Thanks for the kind words. Yes spent a lot of time raising the bar somewhat with this one. Hopefully each new campaign will surpass the last.

 

Badger633 

I used a cold start, I am playing the regular (with A2A refueling) campaign. I use the fast alignment like always. Don't sweat it, the mission was fun and completed without a problem, this was just a small improvement suggestion. I know that for my own missions I take a lot of notes, from myself and others who play it, and keep improving them, so I thought I'd give you these pointers.

 

I will try again. My first playthrough I lined up at the touchdown point. Noticing no ATC clearance and suspecting a trigger zone problem I turned around, taxied to the end using the turn area, lined up again and waited 3min accelerating time. Still no clearance. If I can reproduce I will send the track.

EDIT: given the file size I sent the track by email. It is just 5min long. I was able to reproduce exactly. I had a good 30sec to enter the runway before 420 took off this time.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Qiou87

[Badger633]

14 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

I used a cold start, I am playing the regular (with A2A refueling) campaign. I use the fast alignment like always. Don't sweat it, the mission was fun and completed without a problem, this was just a small improvement suggestion. I know that for my own missions I take a lot of notes, from myself and others who play it, and keep improving them, so I thought I'd give you these pointers.

 

I will try again. My first playthrough I lined up at the touchdown point. Noticing no ATC clearance and suspecting a trigger zone problem I turned around, taxied to the end using the turn area, lined up again and waited 3min accelerating time. Still no clearance. If I can reproduce I will send the track.

EDIT: given the file size I sent the track by email. It is just 5min long. I was able to reproduce exactly. I had a good 30sec to enter the runway before 420 took off this time.

 

Thanks and yes I do the same all comments are welcome if they can improve the campaign

Badger633

 

EDIT: Track was really useful and I can see the issue, will include the update after next, next is too close now.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Badger633