Modability of module`s loadouts

[musolo]

For many of players there is a lot of stuff to be desired regardless of the module they use. Red or Blue fixed or rotary wing. For example many guys i know wanted to play F-16 cold war era scenario and we put 2 Aim-7 on the Viper just to find out that it won`t be usable. You can add it on the F-16 but you can`t shoot it. There appears to be hard coded list of missiles somewhere in the scripts  that Viper can employ. I get it if there was an official flyable  F-16A module. But there isn`t and most probably won`t be for several years to come. 

So why to make hardcoded limit of  Viper`s missiles or make it that way so it couldn`t interface with anything but predefined types of missiles. This is just one example and there are many more cases like that.  Isn`t modability one of the fun factors that increase module`s popularity? 

Would be cool to know that the modability factor would be taken into account when module gets created and/or updated as a general approach. 
 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by musolo

[Tank50us]

There are two main issues in play:
1. You have the hard-core bolt counters who will absolutely pitch a fit if the aircraft modeled in game has something it can't use in the real world (though they seem oddly mute on the opposite...)
2. There have been some mods that have resulted in fun little results like aircraft models and code being hard locked due to some mods nearly breaking the sim because that group, and I quote, "Wanted to use that aircrafts cockpit and flight model". 

The best way for this to happen would be through the new weapon restrictions page in the Mission Editor, and I think the best policy would be as follows:
1. If the aircraft can use the weapon, has been tested with it, and is part of its operational doctrine, it's available then and there for the given country.
2. If the weapon was tested on the platform, but not regularly used, it may not be usable on all stations.
3. If the weapon was tested on the platform, but the modifications were not adopted fleet-wide, then the option is turned off by default, and must be enabled by the mission creator.
4. if the weapon was NOT tested on the platform, but is similar enough to another weapon currently available for the platform (say the IDF Python vs the US AIM9), then the original must be disabled in the ME before the other can enabled.

I think if these were guiding principles for the aircraft in DCS, we'd have far fewer arguments in various forums, as I think these offer us the chance to not just simulate the aircraft as they are, but as an outside customer of the aircraft may actually use them. For example, the F-16C Block 50 we have in game is the USAF version, however, some countries who also use Block 50s have the wiring included to operate Harpoon from the inner two hardpoints. This could also allow for cases where certain versions of the Su25 are now being offered with the capability to fire the AGM-65 Maverick, or the ability for the Tomcat to operate AMRAAM or in the case of the A, some of the weapons Iran use like the modified HAWK, and the R27 series of missiles.

I'm sure other examples exist of foreign customers of various aircraft opting to use their own home-brew weapons on their planes, or plenty of cases where a country tested certain capabilities but never put them into wider service. But this is what I think the best solution would be: Give the mission designers the options, and if people complain about it, then they can just not play on those servers or missions.

[cfrag]

I think @Tank50us makes a great proposal. Personally, I don't need that complexity for my missions, so I'm OK with a checkbox 'strict/realistic weapons' by default that enforces whatever restrictions ED and their partners deem to be best. And then, when you uncheck 'strict', pretty much anything goes: if the software (not the original vendor's software, I mean in-game DCS API) can handle the weapon and interface it with a specific airframe, have at it. Is the in-game HARM compatible with A-10A? Do it. Go SEAD in the Hawg. I can think of worse ways to spend my time    

The thing is, I don't know how weapons interface with modules, and if a module (say the A-10A) needs to have provisions to interface with a particular weapon system (in-game, not in reality) like the AGM-88. But if it can be made to work willy-nilly, by all means, go nuts. It doesn't mean that I am going to use it, but I'm sure it'll make the non hissy-fitting players happy (and the others blue in the face, but I consider that a bonus). It just needs to be made clear from the get-go when a server is not enforcing 'strict' weapons so there are no unhappy surprises.

Edited October 19, 2021 by cfrag

[musolo]

1 hour ago, Tank50us said:

and if people complain about it, then they can just not play on those servers or missions.

This would be perfect solution. Modability in general  is a key to having fun by introducing variety into gameplay . Even if sertain munition is ment for given airframe  but different version of it than it often appears withought pylon just hanging in the air onder the wing. Same happens  if the mission creators want to add extra missiles/bombs/rockets or pods on the hardpoints that wasn`t ment to carry them for that particular version of a module.

As another example of this is the JF-17 block 1/2 essembly we have in DCS. If you add SD-10 on inner pylons like Block 3  has - by modifying entry file. than it functions fine and the pylon itself is there for it. But when you save the mission file, and upload it on the server  than clean clients have those missiles functioning but hanging in the air with those pylons gone.

Tomcat is another example. Hornet too. Mirage etc. With each one of them suffering from this limitation in one of described ways. The list goes on.  

There is no reason for DCS player that buys few different modules and wants to try something outside of the "prescription" for this particular version of the jet/ helo not to have that ability.
I for example got 7 modules and will get more as they will come. Had this approach to module`s armament been implemented  it would only reinforce insentive to by those modules for those still on the fence coz of  vanilla loadouts and weapon configurations of those modules.

Edited October 19, 2021 by musolo