Odd A-10 CCRP Symbology & Loft Bombing

[169th_DedCat]

Anyone else find the CCRP bombing mode HUD symbology in the A-10 confusing? I understand how it is supposed to work in the game, but lining up that little dot with a HUD-centred bomb fall line seems like the reverse of how it should be.

 

Every other U.S. jet sim I've flown places the CCRP bomb fall line over the designated CCRP drop point, and then you line up the flight-path marker (velocity vector) with the bomb fall line, until a descending bomb release cue line (a horizontal line descending the bomb fall line) reaches the flight-path maker. This symbology configuration makes it a lot easier to line up your CCRP drop or loft than what we have in LOMAC.

 

In case my description confuses anyone, I'll post some links to JPEGs of what this looks like a little later...

[169th_DedCat]

Here are some scans from past game manuals. Sorry for the copyright infringements, but none of these developers produce flight-sims anymore anyway. :?

 

What I was referring to the bomb fall line above is correctly referred to as the azimuth steering line (ASL) in all of the following examples.

 

From Hornet Korea:

 

From Jane's F-15 (probably the best example as it shows the ASL off-centre in the HUD and demonstrates how you must place the VV over the ASL):

 

From Jane's F/A-18:

 

From Falcon 4.0:

 

Sorry for all the pics dial-up dudes, but they are highly compressed.

[169th_DedCat]

What would be even cooler would be if a loft CCRP mode was modeled, with a correctly calculated time-to-pull (TPULL) countdown displayed on the HUD, but that is probably asking a lot.

[Pilgrim]

What would be even cooler would be if a loft CCRP mode was modeled, with a correctly calculated time-to-pull (TPULL) countdown displayed on the HUD, but that is probably asking a lot.

 

Isn't that modeled in F4? I'd sure love that in lomac. Where is it anyways? They've done it again. Just like for the 1.02. They have me logging on to check for any news. Damn you lock-on ;)

[169th_DedCat]

I think all of the above games modeled TPULL loft HUD cues, except for maybe Hornet Korea. Typically it is displayed under/above the TREL countdown cue when loft mode is active, with some sort of flashing "PULL" cue appearing on the lower HUD when the TPULL time is up.

 

This would be great in the Russian birds too. I've got the loft attack down pretty well in the Su-33, but having to estimate TPULL yourself can be tricky depending on your varying speed, distance to target, and altitude. Pulling to early makes you trash your bomb release point, pulling too late makes it hard to unload to 1 G before the release point.

[ZoomBoy27]

While I'd agrre it be cool if this was done across allsim,

does the actual A-10 have a different CCRP symbology?

[169th_DedCat]

I doubt it is much different from what it outlined above, if it is different at all. I very much doubt it is anything at all like ED has modeled in LOMAC. It seems like a hastily put together guess more than anything.

[britgliderpilot]

I doubt it is much different from what it outlined above, if it is different at all. I very much doubt it is anything at all like ED has modeled in LOMAC. It seems like a hastily put together guess more than anything.

 

None of the above sims actually feature an A10, remember - and ED does have access to several A10 groundcrew and A10 pilots . . . .

 

Doesn't answer the question of how correct it is, but I'd say ED can get more accurate information on this faster than we can.

[169th_DedCat]

No it doesn't. The above examples feature the F-15, F-16, and F/A-18, but the U.S. tends to keep symbology highly consistent between their aircraft. Pretty well every other feature of the HUD in the above attack aircraft is mirrored in the A-10. I am quite willing to accept that auto bombing mode (CCRP) is mirrored as well.

 

ED only added auto bombing mode (CCRP) to the A-10 in the 1.02 patch, and I suspect not a lot of effort went into making sure it was modeled correctly since it is such a non-intuitive system to use in LOMAC. Having an ASL which you place the VV on until the release cue passes through it makes heaps more sense than trying to line up a moving tiny dot with a centre-fixed bomb fall line.

 

Simply arguing that it's probably correct because, well, ED knows better than we do, doesn't hold much water. This wouldn't be the only system, both pre- and post-patch, that has been shown to fall short of being accurate.

[GGTharos]

Here's an argument: It was pretty intuitive to -me-.

 

The ASL line, of the other hand, isn't.

[169th_DedCat]

Clarify your statement GGTharos. Isn't what? Isn't intuitive? Isn't reflected? What is your source? Besides ED that is.

 

Lining up a tiny falling dot with a centred HUD line takes more effort and is less accurate than simply placing your VV on a line in space that represents the required bomb fall path to strike your designated target. The ASL also provides a much more intuitive judgement on when your bombs will be released, as represented by the distance between the falling bomb release cue and wherever you choose to place your VV along the ASL.

[GGTharos]

I agree that placing the 'square' accurately is perhaps a little less fun, but it can be done easily enough with jsut a little practice.

 

You also know when the bombs will drop because that square begins to drop when you get in range. And again, with practice, you'll know what this range is.

 

It's a fairly manual plane, after all - you don't set space intervals for yoru ripple for example, you set timings, so you must know how much space between bombs for a given timing and speed, and so on.

 

And when I said that it's intuitive to -me- that is exactly what I meant - what source are you asking for? :P

[169th_DedCat]

Just clarification GGTharos. :) By your first statement I wasn't sure if you were simply stating the ASL wasn't intuitive for you, or claiming you had a referenced reason to believe the ASL doesn't exist in the A-10.

 

The ASL doesn't require any system the A-10 does not have. It's just aeronautics. In fact if it can do what ED has modeled, it can do the ASL. It is mealy a matter of depicted symbology. A vertical line instead of a dot for azimuth for reference, and a steady release cue that intercepts your VV rather than a wandering dot that accelerates or decelerates depending on your G load and angle of pitch.

[GGTharos]

Yep, I know what you're referring to ... and I know it's the same data.

 

The only A-10 hud shot I have though shows the rocket pipper and that's it. No CCRP. So AFAIK, ED has it right.