brettt777 Posted April 5, 2022 Posted April 5, 2022 Okay, I spent all day yesterday getting in every DCS aircraft that I have and verifying the trim operation. I was trying to see if I could correlate the issue to certain developers, etc. It didn't work. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Anyway, here's a list of what i have and whether or not they worked. These are the aircraft where the trim worked correctly, i.e. pitch trim moved the horizontal stab or the elevator and roll trim moved the ailerons. And, I could trim it to level flight. DCS FA-18C Hornet DCS F-16C Viper Deka JF-17 Thunder Heatblur AJS37 Viggen Razbam AV-8B Harrier Razbam M2000 Mirage These are the aircraft where the trim worked backwards, i.e. pitch trim moved the ailerons and roll trim moved the elevators. DCS F-86F Sabre DCS L-39C/ZA Albatros Heatblur F-14A/B Tomcat Magnitude 3 MiG-21Bi Fishbed DCS F-15C Eagle DCS Su-25A/T Frogfoot DCS Su-27 Flanker DCS Su-33 Flanker-D DCS-MiG-29A/S Fulcrum These are the aircraft where the trim worked backwards and even when swapped, I could not trim the aircraft to level flight, i.e. I couldn't keep the nose down. DCS-A-10A/C Thunderbolt II DCS-F-5E Tiger II Finally, these were the aircraft where rudder trim worked but pitch and roll trim worked as far as moving the appropriate controls and control surfaces but they had absolutely no affect on the performance of the aircraft. (Yes, I know the Spitfire has no roll trim). DCS P-47D Thunderbolt DCS-P-51D Mustang DCS Spitfire Mk. IX DCS TF-51D Mustang These aircraft don't have electric trim operation and are controlled with trim wheels. I tried it with the trim wheels on the G940 stick and with trim buttons on the Sidewinder and got the same results; rudder trim works, pitch and roll trim move the wheels and trim tabs but they have no affect on the attitude of the aircraft. I could literally watch the trim tabs moving while in flight and it would have absolutely no affect on the aircraft. I also have a couple add-on community mods. An F-22 in which the trim doesn't seem to work at all, and an A-4E in which the trim works correctly. I flew everyone of these yesterday and verified all of this. I tried it with two different control sticks. One was the complete Logitech G940 FFB system; stick/throttle/pedals, and the other was a Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2 used in conjunction with the Logitech system and the Logitech stick was completely removed from the control setup. I went through each aircraft and made sure all the trim controls were setup correctly for that aircraft. I got the same results with either stick. Obviously both sticks are FFB. I have heard that this is a known issue with newer versions of DCS, i.e. it doesn't seem to like FFB sticks. Here's the deal. Up until about six or seven moths ago, this was never an issue. I have had both of these sticks for years and they worked fine. All aircraft trim functions worked. Then right around the time we got updated to 2.7, I started having these issues. Yes, I can cure some of the issues by changing the trim button settings but I shouldn't have to. And that does NOT cure all of them. DCS needs to fix this. I realize I am one of the few that still uses a FFB stick. I don't think I should be penalized for that. I definitely prefer a FFB system, especially with the older aircraft that didn't have FBW or any kind of hydraulic flight controls. This simulator worked fine with my FFB in previous versions. I have an ancient Saitek Cyborg non-FFB stick that I'm gonna try today on a couple planes just for grins, but again, this all worked prior to the 2.7 update (not 100% sure that was the update but it was around that time). I have tried playing around with the FFB settings in DCS but really all I can do is turn it on and off. I haven't really done anything with the Logitech FFB settings cuz I don't use the Logitech program with DCS. I've never had to. Besides, the FFB itself seems to work fine. The problem is with the trim. By the way, in case anyone is wondering, both of these joysticks work perfectly in FSX, P3D and MSFS 2020. So, DCS... what can we do about this? AMD Ryzen 9 5900X @ 4.4ghz, 64gb DDR4 @ 3200mhz, GeForce RTX-3060ti 8GB DDR6, Three KTC 32" QHD monitors @ 165hz, Rosewill 80plus Bronze 1000w, Corsair Hydro H100i, 2tb M.2 SSD for OS, Two 3tb HDD, 2tb SSD for DCS, P3D, Star Citizen, Sound Blaster Zx, Thermaltake Overseer RX-I, Winwing Orion 2 HOTAS F-15EX throttle and F-16EX stick, Winwing 3 MFD MIP with FA-18 UFC and F-16 ICP, TrackIR 5, Surround Speakers & Subwoofer, Oculus Quest 2 VR. :joystick::pilotfly:
MAXsenna Posted April 7, 2022 Posted April 7, 2022 Okay, I spent all day yesterday getting in every DCS aircraft that I have and verifying the trim operation. I was trying to see if I could correlate the issue to certain developers, etc. It didn't work. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Anyway, here's a list of what i have and whether or not they worked. These are the aircraft where the trim worked correctly, i.e. pitch trim moved the horizontal stab or the elevator and roll trim moved the ailerons. And, I could trim it to level flight. DCS FA-18C Hornet DCS F-16C Viper Deka JF-17 Thunder Heatblur AJS37 Viggen Razbam AV-8B Harrier Razbam M2000 Mirage These are the aircraft where the trim worked backwards, i.e. pitch trim moved the ailerons and roll trim moved the elevators. DCS F-86F Sabre DCS L-39C/ZA Albatros Heatblur F-14A/B Tomcat Magnitude 3 MiG-21Bi Fishbed DCS F-15C Eagle DCS Su-25A/T Frogfoot DCS Su-27 Flanker DCS Su-33 Flanker-D DCS-MiG-29A/S Fulcrum These are the aircraft where the trim worked backwards and even when swapped, I could not trim the aircraft to level flight, i.e. I couldn't keep the nose down. DCS-A-10A/C Thunderbolt II DCS-F-5E Tiger II Finally, these were the aircraft where rudder trim worked but pitch and roll trim worked as far as moving the appropriate controls and control surfaces but they had absolutely no affect on the performance of the aircraft. (Yes, I know the Spitfire has no roll trim). DCS P-47D Thunderbolt DCS-P-51D Mustang DCS Spitfire Mk. IX DCS TF-51D Mustang These aircraft don't have electric trim operation and are controlled with trim wheels. I tried it with the trim wheels on the G940 stick and with trim buttons on the Sidewinder and got the same results; rudder trim works, pitch and roll trim move the wheels and trim tabs but they have no affect on the attitude of the aircraft. I could literally watch the trim tabs moving while in flight and it would have absolutely no affect on the aircraft. I also have a couple add-on community mods. An F-22 in which the trim doesn't seem to work at all, and an A-4E in which the trim works correctly. I flew everyone of these yesterday and verified all of this. I tried it with two different control sticks. One was the complete Logitech G940 FFB system; stick/throttle/pedals, and the other was a Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2 used in conjunction with the Logitech system and the Logitech stick was completely removed from the control setup. I went through each aircraft and made sure all the trim controls were setup correctly for that aircraft. I got the same results with either stick. Obviously both sticks are FFB. I have heard that this is a known issue with newer versions of DCS, i.e. it doesn't seem to like FFB sticks. Here's the deal. Up until about six or seven moths ago, this was never an issue. I have had both of these sticks for years and they worked fine. All aircraft trim functions worked. Then right around the time we got updated to 2.7, I started having these issues. Yes, I can cure some of the issues by changing the trim button settings but I shouldn't have to. And that does NOT cure all of them. DCS needs to fix this. I realize I am one of the few that still uses a FFB stick. I don't think I should be penalized for that. I definitely prefer a FFB system, especially with the older aircraft that didn't have FBW or any kind of hydraulic flight controls. This simulator worked fine with my FFB in previous versions. I have an ancient Saitek Cyborg non-FFB stick that I'm gonna try today on a couple planes just for grins, but again, this all worked prior to the 2.7 update (not 100% sure that was the update but it was around that time). I have tried playing around with the FFB settings in DCS but really all I can do is turn it on and off. I haven't really done anything with the Logitech FFB settings cuz I don't use the Logitech program with DCS. I've never had to. Besides, the FFB itself seems to work fine. The problem is with the trim. By the way, in case anyone is wondering, both of these joysticks work perfectly in FSX, P3D and MSFS 2020. So, DCS... what can we do about this? I have ALL the modules.I have the MS FFB2.I don't have ANY issues in ANY of the modules, as long as I swap the axis in the FFB settings for the MS FFB2. (You need to do this for EVERY FFB stick in EVERY module).Except for the Hind on realese, had to swap both X and Y as well, but that is now fixed.Have you done this? Double check as it was working before. Bet that setting was lost.Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
brettt777 Posted April 8, 2022 Author Posted April 8, 2022 21 hours ago, MAXsenna said: I have ALL the modules. I have the MS FFB2. I don't have ANY issues in ANY of the modules, as long as I swap the axis in the FFB settings for the MS FFB2. (You need to do this for EVERY FFB stick in EVERY module). Except for the Hind on realese, had to swap both X and Y as well, but that is now fixed. Have you done this? Double check as it was working before. Bet that setting was lost. Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk Well, I tried a non-FFB stick and as expected, it worked... for the most part. It's complicated and I need to look at it more. But tonight, I plugged my G940 back in and tried an F-14B and a P-51D. For some reason I am not getting any FFB off the trim position like I use to. The FFB is still on; I could feel the vibration in a tight turn. But the pitch and roll trim had no affect on either plane even though the stabs on the Tomcat and the trim tab on the Mustang were working. The rudder trim did still work on the Mustang. So I dunno what's going on. I'll have to look at it more later. AMD Ryzen 9 5900X @ 4.4ghz, 64gb DDR4 @ 3200mhz, GeForce RTX-3060ti 8GB DDR6, Three KTC 32" QHD monitors @ 165hz, Rosewill 80plus Bronze 1000w, Corsair Hydro H100i, 2tb M.2 SSD for OS, Two 3tb HDD, 2tb SSD for DCS, P3D, Star Citizen, Sound Blaster Zx, Thermaltake Overseer RX-I, Winwing Orion 2 HOTAS F-15EX throttle and F-16EX stick, Winwing 3 MFD MIP with FA-18 UFC and F-16 ICP, TrackIR 5, Surround Speakers & Subwoofer, Oculus Quest 2 VR. :joystick::pilotfly:
MAXsenna Posted April 8, 2022 Posted April 8, 2022 Well, I tried a non-FFB stick and as expected, it worked... for the most part. It's complicated and I need to look at it more. But tonight, I plugged my G940 back in and tried an F-14B and a P-51D. For some reason I am not getting any FFB off the trim position like I use to. The FFB is still on; I could feel the vibration in a tight turn. But the pitch and roll trim had no affect on either plane even though the stabs on the Tomcat and the trim tab on the Mustang were working. The rudder trim did still work on the Mustang. So I dunno what's going on. I'll have to look at it more later.You didn't answer my question, but I re-read your OP, so it seems you have swapped the FFB axis. At least for some of the modules. You are incorrect in your assumption of being one of the few users with FFB. Seems to me there are quite a few of us here actually. Your issue sounds vaguely familiar, but I still think the solution was swapping the FFB axis.What happens if you use another trim hat on another stick, or the keyboard to trim? Does the FFB stick move?Or is your problem really that everything seems to work, except for the "flight model"?Make a track, and I'm sure someone will spot what's wrong.I'm positive it's not FFB implementation in DCS, or more FFB users would complain.Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
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