Ataka Weight

[AeriaGloria]

   Hello I would like to bring up Ataka weight. There seems to be some pretty widespread disagreement along online sources. Some say 33.5 kg, some say 42.5 kg (as it is in DCS), and some say 49.5 or incorrectly say 48.5. Upon further research you would find multiple sources claiming it is 49.5 kg in the container, whereas in DCS it is 57.5 kg in the container tube http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/aat/ataka.html

   However, the container is known to be 15 kg, which is what it is in DCS as well with the rack being 13 kg. This would mean that if weight in container was 49.5 kg, actual missile weight would be 33.5 kg. There is a textbook that appears to claim the only difference between Shturm and Ataka is warhead, “Конструкция Средств Поражения, Боеприпасов, Взрывателей И Систем Управления Средствами Поражения: Конструкция и функционирование ПТУР" (Design of Weapons, Ammunition, Fuses, and Control of Destructive Devices: Design and Functioning of ATGMs) by the Penza Artillery Engineering Institute.”

   And since the 9M120 Ataka warhead is 2 kg heavier then Shturm warhead, and Shturm is 31.5 kg. That brings you to 33.5 kg. 
 

   There is mentions of 9M120 Ataka being 33.5 kg in this article written by Roy a Broybook in 2005, available here for free viewing https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Weapons+for+whirlybirds-a0138143048

  It is also mentioned here as weight of the Ataka being 33.5 kg, but a source is not given. The many sources in the rest of the article especially including Shturm/Ataka make me believe there has to be some reason for the author to have settled on 33.5 kg. Surprisingly they also make the same 48.5 kg mistake for weight inside container. https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2021/07/soviet-atgms.html?m=1

Interestingly enough there also English language sources saying weight of Ataka is 42.5 kg as it is in DCS. 

https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/WEG/Asset/9M120_Ataka_(AT-9_Spiral-2)_Russian_Anti-Tank_Guided_Missile_(ATGM)

 

http://www.military-today.com/missiles/ataka.htm

  I don’t have much else to say other then, a Mi-24V IE manual makes it known that Ataka average speed is slower then Shturm. Currently in DCS, the Ataka has its rocket power slightly changed from Shturm, I assume to make up for the weight, wether that is based on reality or trying to replicate its real world performance I do not know. I only mention this to say that, if Ataka weight is lowered from its current 42.5 kg to 33.5 kg if ED finds that to be correct, I would hope that the performance still falls within the acceptable region for ED’s standards of realism. 

  I apologize for all the bug reports, but as there seems to be a renewed push to finish Mi-24 and polish it. It seems this is the time to go through details and see if there is anything that can be made better 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[AeriaGloria]

  Found another source. In a Mi-35M manual that can be purchased online, there is reference to Ataka being 48.3 kg in the container. Subtract 15 kg, and we get 33.3 kg. 
 

  However earlier in the manual, there is a loading chart with weights of each item. Most of them are rounded to a specific kg, but the weight for 4 Ataka missiles being loaded is 150 kg and 300 kg for 8, which would be 37.5 kg per missile. Perhaps it is rounded up

   This same chart gives weight of tubes/containers, however they disagree with the previously estabilished weight of 15 kg, and list 46 kg for 4, which would be 11.5 kg each. Perhaps these are newer Lighter containers?? It also tell us Weight of Ataka in tube as 48.3 kg, which minus the 11.5 kg tube weight, gives us 36.8 kg. Close to the earlier 37.5 kg figure.
 

   And also in CG section, it gives 34 kg for Shturm and 37.5 kg again for Ataka (all versions). It says if 8 Ataka missiles are replaced with Shturm, weight reduces by 28 kg. Which would be 3.5 kg for each missile, which again confirms to its given 34 kg weight for Shturm and 37.5 kg weight for Ataka. And I couldn’t find many sources that stipulate 34 kg for 9M114 Shturm, much to my confusion. 
 

  Only similar figure to 34 kg I could find; was in the LUA for AT-6. It lists 31 kg as total mass, but 35.4 kg for mass in the “fm” section for the flight model and autopilot. The LUA for the 9M120 Ataka, both the missile mass and the mass in the “fm” section both agree on 42.5 kg. 

 

Like Jesus, what is the reality behind all these numbers

Edited May 10, 2022 by AeriaGloria

[Quati]

Maybe some places consider the weight of the missile and case with the booster engine and the case without the booster.

On the "Kokon" and "Ataka" series, missile ejection is provided by a small solid fuel rocket engine, 217mm in length and weighing around 3.5 kg, attached to the base of the missile. The ejection engine contains the 9Kh182 charge, consisting of 1.1 kg of NDSI-2K propellant sticks.

[AeriaGloria]

56 minutes ago, Quati said:

Maybe some places consider the weight of the missile and case with the booster engine and the case without the booster.

On the "Kokon" and "Ataka" series, missile ejection is provided by a small solid fuel rocket engine, 217mm in length and weighing around 3.5 kg, attached to the base of the missile. The ejection engine contains the 9Kh182 charge, consisting of 1.1 kg of NDSI-2K propellant sticks.

I didn’t think of this!!! 
 

  I think this definitely explains the AT-6 LUA listing 31 kg for mass and 35.4 kg for mass in “fm” section, even though that is 4.4 kg, I think perhaps there is some selective rounding going on. As it seems 31.4 kg Is regarded by many as the Shturm weight in flight. 
 

Anyways I give up. I definitely wonder why AT-6 LUA has that difference between the two masses but 9M120 Atak LUA doesn’t, and i definitely think the 9M120 being 7.1 kg heavier at 42.5 kg in DCS to seem a bit odd. 
 

  But I guess, unless someone else can piece things together correctly, I may have lots of sources but no proof or concrete idea of 9M120 Ataka weight. There’s so little consistency and agreement between sources do