GGTharos Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Ramius007 said: It's represented very correctly No, it's not even close. 1 hour ago, Ramius007 said: , issue is bigger, RWR and overall all passive detection systems are super accurate in DCS, This is a different type of problem. 1 hour ago, Ramius007 said: Things like ECM efficiency vs missiles would be impossible to represent, due lack of data, maybe this is possible for 60/70's era planes, but it's big maybe, everytihng else is just anecdotal knowladge. It isn't impossible at all. ANd before you even get into 'efficiency vs missiles', it just needs to be represented correctly in a big picture/operational way to begin with. The only thing you have now is a stop-gap which I certainly hope ED will attempt to replace with a very robust a realistic system. Effectiveness vs. enemy hardware is for the mission maker; give him some switches/sliders and he can make things as fair or unfair as desired for a given scenario. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuII Posted November 14, 2023 Author Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) It is literally writen there. "Inertial guidance with radio correction and semi-active radar homing at final stage" ! R77 uses the same logic, can "relock" during radio correction but R-27R cannot ?? I believe you need to keep lock and sync while final phase, but during radio corrections it should be possible to "relock" and guide towards target. Edited November 14, 2023 by NuII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuII Posted November 14, 2023 Author Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) Sparrows (P version not included) have no mid-course guidance also called radio correction before getting close to target but is able to retrack after target lost. It must have an explanations, use same channel frequency after relock, I dont know... Other questions in term of game mechanics, Why the hell, the R-27R is able to retrack after relocking a jamming target ? Automatically switch to HoJ ? Why cant he do it twice ? Why the R-27 is able to track, after launching without lock, if target is in a narrow angle in front of the missile within 20 km ? Missiles is able to do some sort of LOAL. And 20 km, like the 77s pitbull. I am just asking questions to show it still doesnt make sense since the R27 update. Edited November 14, 2023 by NuII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 2 hours ago, NuII said: Sparrows (P version not included) have no mid-course guidance also called radio correction before getting close to target but is able to retrack after target lost. It must have an explanations, use same channel frequency after relock, I dont know... The guidance channel (specific radio signal/waveform assigned to THAT missile to lock onto) is alive until the track is deleted on the mothership. So you can 'relock' as much as you like as long as the target is in the seeker's FoV and the track has not timed out. There is always a track of some sort, it's not just a TWS thing. 2 hours ago, NuII said: Other questions in term of game mechanics, Why the hell, the R-27R is able to retrack after relocking a jamming target ? Automatically switch to HoJ ? Why cant he do it twice ? Why the R-27 is able to track, after launching without lock, if target is in a narrow angle in front of the missile within 20 km ? Missiles is able to do some sort of LOAL. And 20 km, like the 77s pitbull. I am just asking questions to show it still doesnt make sense since the R27 update. Not sure what's been done to the game mechanics right now, but here's the thing: Like with sparrow, the radar will assign an MCU/Guidance channel to the missile. That is available until the track times out for whatever reason. This isn't really represented in DCS, it's more along the likes of 'the radar will attempt to regain lock for x seconds' which last I checked was still 4 seconds. If contact is actually dropped, locking again should not be possible at all since as far as the radar is concerned, you're locking a 'new' trarget and not guiding a missile at that time (that is, the MCU/Guidance channel is no longer present in the signal). The next missile would be assigned the next guidance channel, so you shouldn't really be able to 're-lock' by launching another missile. In DCS, the ability to re-lock might be on a timer and certainly (and appropriately) require the target to the in the missile seeker's FoV. FC3 doesn't have any radio simulation so there's no channels etc. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowFrost Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) On 11/14/2023 at 3:24 AM, NuII said: It is literally writen there. "Inertial guidance with radio correction and semi-active radar homing at final stage" ! R77 uses the same logic, can "relock" during radio correction but R-27R cannot ?? I believe you need to keep lock and sync while final phase, but during radio corrections it should be possible to "relock" and guide towards target. The radio correction is doing nothing for the R-27R other than trying to get the close enough to the target that it can detect a return. (Late SARH weapons tend to outrange the seeker acquisition range) The loss of lock, is desynchronizing the radar from the passive seeker on the R-27. Just before launch, the R-27 receives reflected sidelobes which it tunes to. If this is changed (broke lock) sync is no longer established and it will miss. That is from a Su-27 manual AFAIK. The Mig-29 has a alternative operation, which is flood mode also activates during STT and can be used as a backup guidance method upon loss of lock. (27 guides on CW regardless) Just STT is better. However, without an overhaul of the SARH missiles within DCS. It would be very difficult to make an accurate simulation of flood currently. There are very good reasons you would not want to use flood over a STT track and AFAIK none are implemented in DCS at the moment. Edited November 18, 2023 by ShadowFrost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowFrost Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 On 11/14/2023 at 7:07 AM, NuII said: Sparrows (P version not included) have no mid-course guidance also called radio correction before getting close to target but is able to retrack after target lost. It must have an explanations, use same channel frequency after relock, I dont know... Other questions in term of game mechanics, Why the hell, the R-27R is able to retrack after relocking a jamming target ? Automatically switch to HoJ ? Why cant he do it twice ? Why the R-27 is able to track, after launching without lock, if target is in a narrow angle in front of the missile within 20 km ? Missiles is able to do some sort of LOAL. And 20 km, like the 77s pitbull. I am just asking questions to show it still doesnt make sense since the R27 update. The explanation is... They probably should have similar. Except you now have many modules to cross check against and ensure appropriate functionality. This is not a R-27 only issue. Its more the rule than the exception. Some missiles/airframes may behave differently however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts