not planned J-11A with PL-12??

[Wyvern]

3 minutes ago, Irisz said:

just as you didn't even know that the yellow marked missiles were practice rockets!

I never claimed they were service missiles? Where are you pulling that out now?

[Irisz]

14 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

no it can not. It requires the APK-9 pod here, which is being used on the Su-30, not the J-11A.
 

You have no idea what you are talking about, because the APK-9 pod is used on the Su-30MKI - MKM types! The MFI-55 appeared on the original Su-30KN prototype, then Ukraine continued to use it to help other countries modernize the Flanker and Fulcrum types!

9 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

I never claimed they were service missiles? Where are you pulling that out now?

I think you should somehow try to write less about a topic you don't know much about! Here is your statement about the PL-12, which I had to correct, because you are writing false information on the forum and deceiving other users: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/326099-j-11a-with-pl-12/

Edited June 6, 2024 by Irisz

[Irisz]

32 minutes ago, okopanja said:

For your information: the IR detector in OLS is a segment cross shaped detector which can be utilized only to track the target. It is incapable of producing the image. As for the laser guided missiles: OLS has the laser range finder. It could be perhaps used to iluminate the target or receive the illumination from another target, but this is nowhere near the SHKVAL and note that its position obscures the lower half sphere to large extent.

The 1 or 2 marked tool shown in the picture is used for targeting! Therefore, since it is a military secret, it cannot be implemented in DCS World! By the way, I already played with the KH-29T in Flaming Cliffs 2 and had fun, you can see how it worked in Flaming Cliffs 2, it's practically an MFI-55 function!

I am linking to 2 videos, one shows the KH-29T, the other the KH-31P missile. I think these suggestions are compatible with the philosophy of FC3 and would serve a lot of people with fun gameplay!

Here are the two video links, check them out!

https://youtu.be/qdkKDc_wsuU?si=uBxtIuguU197HtD0

https://youtu.be/lHarJ1mNj4Q?si=UT9g5PhPG01b5uMA

 

Does this fit the style of FC3? This is how I see that a few functions of the MFI-55 could be implemented. I don't think the ground scanning radar is possible in FC3 style, but I think these are!

Edited June 6, 2024 by Irisz

[Irisz]

At the beginning, it was planned to integrate the domestic PL-12 medium-range air-to-air missile into the J-11A fighter jet. However, doing so will lead to major changes to the entire avionics system, resulting in a larger workload and low cost performance. Therefore, with the assistance of the Belarusian 588 aviation repair shop, we decided to imitate the level of the Su-27UBM1 and upgrade the J-11A fighter to the level of the J-11A MLU.

The J-11A has nothing to do with the PL-12 missile! By the way, they are trying to make the J-11A Flanker elsewhere, but they ran into obstacles, so they can't get information anywhere else, in a place where it is not mandatory to simulate the capabilities!

Here is the full article in Chinese, I've been searching for J-11A information for months and you won't find anything more authentic: https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1739591670325822206&wfr=spider&for=pc

Edited June 6, 2024 by Irisz

[okopanja]

1 hour ago, Irisz said:

The 1 or 2 marked tool shown in the picture is used for targeting! Therefore, since it is a military secret, it cannot be implemented in DCS World! By the way, I already played with the KH-29T in Flaming Cliffs 2 and had fun, you can see how it worked in Flaming Cliffs 2, it's practically an MFI-55 function!

I am linking to 2 videos, one shows the KH-29T, the other the KH-31P missile. I think these suggestions are compatible with the philosophy of FC3 and would serve a lot of people with fun gameplay!

Here are the two video links, check them out!

https://youtu.be/qdkKDc_wsuU?si=uBxtIuguU197HtD0

https://youtu.be/lHarJ1mNj4Q?si=UT9g5PhPG01b5uMA

 

Does this fit the style of FC3? This is how I see that a few functions of the MFI-55 could be implemented. I don't think the ground scanning radar is possible in FC3 style, but I think these are!

 

Dear Irisz,

First of all your effort to improve the representation of RED airplanes has not gone unnoticed. I feel the great passion you are bringing here. Some of your posts are indeed interesting and realize rise the interesting questions, however in many of these posts you have already demonstrated incomplete knowledge while confidently claiming something for a fact.

As I stated the OLS in its original state can not be used to sample an image. For the laser guided missile some plausibility is there, however there would need to be manual update pages specifying at least the loadout if not a detailed section dedicated to the weapon employment. For Kh-29T we know already that it can be deployed on modernized Mig-29 9.12. In order to do that it needs to be able to display the image and I believe that in this case the not-so-mythical MFI-55 was used. However, this leaves the question on what was used to que the missile/bomb. If I have to guess the most plausible explanation is the video from missile/bomb itself. Perhaps there is a variant of OLS that has actually replaced the simple rotating detector sensor with some CCD chip, but I did not find any evidence of that. As for the Kh-31P, yes it can be fired,there are 2 possibilities, either it uses some improved RWR, e.g. Pastel, or it can be simply launched on azimuth or pre-programmed targets. This missile is also a part of 9.12 upgrade package.

As for the computer you are mentioning, C100 which was original used on both 29s and 27s indeed had the problem with saturation with targets, and as a result also was vulnerable to some of the ECM attacks. This replacement was completed around 1991 and was being offered even to the foreign customers. I am aware of one such offer in 1996, which along other things offered Pastel, R-77, Kh-29T and many other things.

Your concern related to this topic is certainly something that should be taken into account, but there is certain ambiguity and without proper documents I would not jump to early conclusions. 

Lastly: it will not hurt if your behavior would be somewhat toned down. I do respect your energy and passion, but within this topic you have actually offended a guy who is well known in community for contributions in MODs, liveries, bug testing and even providing of the bug fixes to the official DCS. Calling him uninformed will only undermine your own personal credibility, so once again I kindly ask you to be polite, respectful and not to jump on conclusions solely based on photos. You can read the forum rules, and among other things they also specify on what you can post here (e.g. in case you get tempted to slam me with full-up-to-date manual for J-11A ).

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2024 by okopanja

[Irisz]

42 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Dear Irisz,

First of all your effort to improve the representation of RED airplanes has not gone unnoticed. I feel the great passion you are bringing here. Some of your posts are indeed interesting and realize rise the interesting questions, however in many of these posts you have already demonstrated incomplete knowledge while confidently claiming something for a fact.

As I stated the OLS in its original state can not be used to sample an image. For the laser guided missile some plausibility is there, however there would need to be manual update pages specifying at least the loadout if not a detailed section dedicated to the weapon employment. For Kh-29T we know already that it can be deployed on modernized Mig-29 9.12. In order to do that it needs to be able to display the image and I believe that in this case the not-so-mythical MFI-55 was used. However, this leaves the question on what was used to que the missile/bomb. If I have to guess the most plausible explanation is the video from missile/bomb itself. Perhaps there is a variant of OLS that has actually replaced the simple rotating detector sensor with some CCD chip, but I did not find any evidence of that. As for the Kh-31P, yes it can be fired,there are 2 possibilities, either it uses some improved RWR, e.g. Pastel, or it can be simply launched on azimuth or pre-programmed targets. This missile is also a part of 9.12 upgrade package.

As for the computer you are mentioning, C100 which was original used on both 29s and 27s indeed had the problem with saturation with targets, and as a result also was vulnerable to some of the ECM attacks. This replacement was completed around 1991 and was being offered even to the foreign customers. I am aware of one such offer in 1996, which along other things offered Pastel, R-77, Kh-29T and many other things.

Your concern related to this topic is certainly something that should be taken into account, but there is certain ambiguity and without proper documents I would not jump to early conclusions. 

Lastly: it will not hurt if your behavior would be somewhat toned down. I do respect your energy in passion, but within this topic you have actually offended a guy who is well known in community for contributions in MODs, liveries, bug testing and even providing of the bug fixes to the official DCS. Calling him uninformed will only undermine your own personal credibility, so once again I kindly ask you to be polite, respectful and not to jump on conclusions solely in photos. You can read the forum rules, and among other things they also specify on what you can post here (e.g. in case you get tempted to slam me with full-up-to-date manual for J-11A ).

 

 

 

You are also talking about the MFI-55! MFI-55 upgrade is part of MiG-29BM - MiG-29CM - Su-30KN - Su-27UBM - J-11A!

MiG-29B 9-12B + MFI-55 = MiG-29BM
MiG-29C 9-13C + MFI-55 = MiG-29CM
Su-27UB or Su-27PU + MFI-55 = Su-30KN
Su-27UB + MFI-55 = Su-27UBM 1 and 2
J-11 + MFI-55 = J-11A MLU

МиГ-29БМ

МиГ-29СМ

Су-30КН

Су-27УБМ1

Су-27УБМ2

J-11 ---Here again, you will find that Belarus, that is, Ukrainians, helped to update the J-11A. I cannot describe enough that no one will post official military documents on this forum, because these are military secret documents, so there is no other way to prove it!

You can read all about these planes and their history! Take your time and you will understand why I am writing on the forum! Thank you for your patience and professional attitude!

I may have offended someone, but it was boring for me that I didn't do anything else for 2 weeks, I just looked for the information about the Chinese training rockets marked with yellow, and he couldn't write enough to say: thank you or something!

I got bored with the fact that if I appear, he will automatically attack! He doesn't even know that the APK-9 pod is needed for the KH-59 missile, and the MFI-55 update that the Ukrainians gave to other countries does not include the APK-9 pod or the KH-59!

I did what I could, and you can see that you can use the forum normally! I verify my information with pictures and websites, the other party makes things up and cannot prove it!

If possible, when you say one thing about me and you think something else, prove what you say with information that is not based on writing a few sentences, but on public documents, websites, and pictures. There is no other way to debate fairly, because it is not credible that two people write your sentences, and I prove what I claim with pictures, websites, videos and other means!

We can see that someone invented that the PL-12 missile is carried by the J-11A, which is a false claim, it took me 2 weeks to find and prove it. When I'm bored, I read about the subject, I don't look at pictures because they're beautiful, and I make up theories like a child dreaming.

Edited June 6, 2024 by Irisz

[okopanja]

18 minutes ago, Irisz said:

I may have offended someone, but it was boring for me that I didn't do anything else for 2 weeks, I just looked for the information about the Chinese training rockets marked with yellow, and he couldn't write enough to say: thank you or something!

You will also notice that these missiles do not have 3rd set of fins, which means they are not really R-27s as we know them. This on it's own creates the ambiguity.

BTW: this is 9.12 SM+ https://tangosix.rs/2022/03/05/kako-je-lovac-postao-visenamenski-borbeni-avion-detalji-novog-naoruzanja-na-premijeri-modernizovanih-mig-ova-29sm/

Edited June 6, 2024 by okopanja

[Irisz]

39 minutes ago, okopanja said:

You will also notice that these missiles do not have 3rd set of fins, which means they are not really R-27s as we know them. This on it's own creates the ambiguity.

BTW: this is 9.12 SM+ https://tangosix.rs/2022/03/05/kako-je-lovac-postao-visenamenski-borbeni-avion-detalji-novog-naoruzanja-na-premijeri-modernizovanih-mig-ova-29sm/

 

Your attention does not extend to the details that you can install that fin (deflector) and if you remove it, it will brake the aircraft less aerodynamically, just as the RVV-AE missile is also stripped down to brake the aircraft less!

You come up with a theory again... and there is nothing behind it but a fantasy! For my part, that's all about the topic, and I respectfully suggest that if you are bored, read about the topic because it will benefit you, you won't invent fantasy things!

Have a nice day and don't hate me, nobody on this forum loves DCS Flankers more than me, and I'm fighting to make this love better and enjoyable for everyone!

They used to remove the fins from the missile during training! You can also see this with the R-73 imitator!

There is also a version with fins!

 

Edited June 6, 2024 by Irisz

[Irisz]

Here are the misunderstandings why the disinformation is spreading that the J-11A carries a PL-12 missile!

[supersylph]

The image in question is actually an R27 training missile without wings installed.To be honest, if it is possible to add some new features, I hope it will be MAWS and the new RWR, and TWS.But due to the limitations of FC3.And J11A is improved on the basis of ED's SU27.DEKA not only faces technical limitations in development and difficulty in obtaining data on the J-11, but also will not have any economic benefits.There shouldn't be any changes to J11 in the short term.If 10 years later or more, ED, DEKA, and us are still here, maybe we can see the J-11B.

[Irisz]

Interesting picture of our little favorite!

J-11A 2015 MLU citing what allegedly is an official poster from the PLAAF 16th air brigade.

 

[Wyvern]

The image in question is actually an R27 training missile without wings installed.To be honest, if it is possible to add some new features, I hope it will be MAWS and the new RWR, and TWS.But due to the limitations of FC3.And J11A is improved on the basis of ED's SU27.DEKA not only faces technical limitations in development and difficulty in obtaining data on the J-11, but also will not have any economic benefits.There shouldn't be any changes to J11 in the short term.If 10 years later or more, ED, DEKA, and us are still here, maybe we can see the J-11B.

J-11A is being handled by ED now, not by Dela anymore

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Interesting picture of our little favorite!

J-11A 2015 MLU citing what allegedly is an official poster from the PLAAF 16th air brigade.
 

Well maybe
Considering that the MLU program was aided by Ukraine, it wouldnt surprise me.

Though, im not too sure about PL-15

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[FlankerFan35]

10 hours ago, Irisz said:

Interesting picture of our little favorite!

J-11A 2015 MLU citing what allegedly is an official poster from the PLAAF 16th air brigade.

 

Highly unlikely that PL-10 and PL-15 would be wasted on J-11A. MLU still uses N001 which is very old and unable to use PL-15 in a strong manner and same with HMS on 11A and PL-10, though to a lesser degree.

Meanwhile there are hundreds of J-11B, J-10B, J-10A that can make better use and are still only equipped with PL-8B/12 and PL-10 on J-10B and 10AH.

Interesting to imagine though  I think Red will not get new things soon.

[Wyvern]

we'll see

 

FC24 means that we may get some FC stuff 

[Irisz]

I understand that ED is unlikely to allow any changes, and Deka hasn't provided much information since 2018. Initially, it all started as a mod driven by enthusiasm, but due to military secrecy, progress stalled, and it only became a Su-27+R77 mod without further development.

Considering we don’t even have detailed images of the J-11A MLU cockpit, it's unrealistic to expect China to release detailed information on any additional modifications made to the J-11A MLU in 2024. (This is just my assumption.) So far, we've only encountered speculative reports about what the J-11A MLU might involve, with no official confirmation.

I like to look under the hood. Our current DCS World J-11A N001 radar can serve the PL-12 missile.

My DCS World tests are coming!

The current N001 radar can track the B52 bomber from 210 km away!

Here on the YouTube video you can see how the DCS World PL-12 missile reaches the B52 bomber from 160 km away. The DCS World PL-12 could have a longer range, but the missile's battery life prevents a longer range. You saw the picture above, the DCS World PL-12 has a maximum range of about 180 km! So, even the current radar would be enough against bomber sized targets...

The PL-15 missile with a range of 300 km requires a more powerful radar. It is justified here that it needs to be modernized because of the PL-15 missile.

These are my thoughts and I don't want to start a debate, I just showed the details!

 

Edited September 14, 2024 by Irisz

[okopanja]

2 hours ago, Irisz said:

The PL-15 missile with a range of 300 km requires a more powerful radar. It is justified here that it needs to be modernized because of the PL-15 missile.

Strictly speaking this is only if you aim to use it maximal distance against non maneuverable target. However more realistic use case it to utilize it on closer targets and leverage it's huge NEZ to kill the opponent which actively attempts to escape at far greater distances.

[Irisz]

1 hour ago, okopanja said:

Strictly speaking this is only if you aim to use it maximal distance against non maneuverable target. However more realistic use case it to utilize it on closer targets and leverage it's huge NEZ to kill the opponent which actively attempts to escape at far greater distances.

Personally, I would easily put these missiles on the J-11A, renaming it to J-11A MLU. The helmet sight system wouldn't be a problem for the PL-10 launching at 90 degrees it would just track closer targets better due to the sensor's wide field of view. Unfortunately, I can’t mention the name of the person responsible for preventing this from happening. Imagine, for this MLU, we would only need two more missiles everything else is ready. After all, the FC series isn't about complete authenticity, so it makes sense that a small investment would enhance the product's appeal. It's interesting that the F-15C gets the AIM-120D and AIM-9X by default! That's all we know, we can only criticize them, which is entirely fair. Hopefully, they'll eventually snap out of their NATO admiration!

By the way, as the ED engineers calculated what the R-27ER could do, they had to completely rebuild it. Then by doubling the 160 km range of the PL-12 and doubling the battery life, everything else is almost ready, there is even a PL-15 missile model in the form of a mod, I don't think anyone would be offended if they used the mod, the J-11A was also made from a mod that they made money in the FC series. Around 2017, if you search in the user files, you will find the Su-27+R77 mod, from which it was upgraded to official, that's about the end of the story.

I laugh and read about every 3 months that this topic comes up and our person always answers the same thing and here is an opportunity and they don't use it!

Edited September 14, 2024 by Irisz

[Wyvern]

1 hour ago, Irisz said:

It's interesting that the F-15C gets the AIM-120D and AIM-9X by default!

 

No? 
It gets AIM-120C and AIM-9Ms, no Datalink, no HMD
im not sure where youre taking this from, but the DCS F-15 doesnt have any of the two missiles.
 

 

1 hour ago, Irisz said:

Hopefully, they'll eventually snap out of their NATO admiration!

Maybe when China and Russia will allow it.
 

[Irisz]

3 hours ago, Wyvern said:

No? 
It gets AIM-120C and AIM-9Ms, no Datalink, no HMD
im not sure where youre taking this from, but the DCS F-15 doesnt have any of the two missiles.

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/78139-rakety-v-dcs/?do=findComment&comment=5476670

Edited September 14, 2024 by Irisz

[Wyvern]

4 hours ago, Irisz said:

and Deka hasn't provided much information since 2018.

Because Deka is not in charge of the J-11A anymore.
Its being handled by ED. And ED wont add PL-15s to a plane because you showed one picture.

and you do realize that the F-15C we have in DCS is an 2002ish version?
we will not get anything as new as an 2015 AIM-120D or an 2020 PL-15. 
This is a dead topic. A dead horse thats being beaten every 3 months.

We will not get a J-11A MLU, we will not get an Modern F-15C, and we for sure wont get an J-11B.

Maybe, once the J-8 is out, there will be reconsideration to create an Su-30MKK
until then, we wont get any modern Redfor aircraft.
 

[Irisz]

Spoiler

I find it difficult to understand why some people feel the need to respond whenever I post on the forum, as if no other opinion but theirs can be valid, and they take it personally when someone disagrees. Some believe they are experts because they’ve spent a lot of time with a video game, and anyone with more knowledge is seen as a threat. It’s hard to grasp why it’s so difficult to share opinions here without having to deal with someone taking out their frustration on me. Is creating skins really such a critical matter? Or is reporting bugs for free on a forum where no one is forced to participate considered a major success? Fortunately, there are ways to avoid such situations on the forum. Someone’s health has already been affected, and maybe it will take real-life consequences for people to realize the impact of their actions. I never start these conflicts, but when I share my thoughts, they seem to take it as a personal attack. It feels like they only feel comfortable when they can lecture everyone, believing the world revolves around them. Perhaps a lack of life experience plays a role in learning how to interact respectfully with others.

 

[Mike_Romeo]

8 hours ago, Irisz said:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/78139-rakety-v-dcs/?do=findComment&comment=5476670

 

"on the wish list" and "not in high priority" means it wont come for the next 10 years

[Irisz]

11 hours ago, Mike_Romeo said:

"on the wish list" and "not in high priority" means it wont come for the next 10 years

It's even more certain, but I'll tell you it will arrive sooner than Deka's never-realizable MFI-55, which he promised people, because an AIM-120D is easier to modify with an engineer from the AIM 120C5, so that almost all the information of the AIM-120D is available.

I think this official picture of the state of the J-11A MLU in 2015 would be worth more to the community, which has been wanting for 15 years to finally see some change in the state of Redfor. A PL-10 and a PL-15 missile is easier to make than a Belarusian military secret!

Meanwhile, the philosophy of the FC series and the FC2024 is about the fact that these aircraft are not based on complete implementation but on simplicity. I was the only one who pointed out that the Su-30MKK will not be a savior because it uses the same missiles as the J-11A. Maybe the PL-10 would be a bit difficult, but the PL-15 is already in mod form in DCS World. So this way would still be easier. Look at how successful the Growling Sidewinder server is with the J-11A PL-12 option, and there is no rebellion to stop using PL-12 immediately, specifically the most popular server among all servers. With these options, I think that for 10 years no one would ask for things on the forum that no one has been able to respond to this problem for 15-20 years.

J-11A 2015 MLU citing what allegedly is an official poster from the PLAAF 16th air brigade.

This is an official poster for the 2015 status of the J-11A MLU. I will describe it again if necessary, the Chinese will not publicly report on everything they do, this picture is also 9 years old and was only published in 2024.

I don't need to be whipped because I would do something so that DCS World is not called a NATO simulator! I think this is exactly what ED should think about, because the F-15C AIM-120D+AIM9X would bring a huge fan base to DCS World. As well as these 3 missiles that are missing from the J-11A, which could be renamed to the J-11A MLU without violating any military secrets. Of course, I'm not saying that Deka shouldn't make Su-30MKK, but that these things would once and for all solve this problem that Redfor fans have been asking for for decades.

The N001 radar is only effective at 50-60 km against targets the size of fighter jets, if the Meteor missile arrives, it will have a no escape zone distance that exceeds everything in BVR air combat. The AIM-120D has a no escape zone of about 40 km. So even if these missiles are mounted on the J-11A, it will not be a savior, but it will be much more enjoyable to play DCS World and NATO aircraft will continue to dominate. If Meteor and AIM-120D arrive, without PL-12 and PL-15 we are just target drones. And even if the answer is to make a mission so that the opponent is not strong, it doesn't work because everyone wants the best and strongest. If you do the balanced mission for the players, they simply won't play because the Flanker and Fulcrum will dominate, and if the NATO aircraft suffers, they will go and play on the Growling Sidewinder server. It's simple psychology, I don't play on servers from the 80s as a Flanker fan either, because the FA-18C and F-16CM fly with datalink with modern radars made after 2000, which someone calls 80s, but it's not. This is the real problem here.

Edited September 15, 2024 by Irisz