Procedural aircraft selection and spawning for Multiplayer slots

[ShuRugal]

I would like to suggest that an option for a "procedural" player spawn be added to reduce the number of units mission designers must place when designing general-purpose multiplayer missions, and to reduce aircraft selection screen clutter for players in large missions.

I would like to see this option behave as follows:

• When a player selects this slot type to spawn, the following should happen:
  1. Present player with a selection screen to choose which aircraft to fly
  2. Present player with a loadout screen to set loadout and radio frequencies for the spawn
  3. Procedurally generate unit designation based on slot callsign setting (eg, first player is shooter 1-1, second is shooter 1-2, third is shooter 1-3, etc)
  4. Depending on spawn type set (parking, runway, air) perform a collision check and:
     1. if no collision detected, spawn
     2. if collision detected:
        • advance to next parking slot and recheck collision
        • displace left/right on the runway threshold or select next available runway (if applicable) and recheck collision
        • displace air start position left/right/up and recheck collision
     3. if collision still detected after all valid start positions selected, notify player and allow player to choose to wait or select different slot
• mission designer places on the map with the same start options as current aircraft-specific slots (spawn on ground/parking/runway/air)
• mission designer selects the maximum number of players which may spawn using this slot
• option for mission designer to allow specific aircraft in this spot
• options for mission designer to set default loadout and radio frequencies for the allowed aircraft types in the slot

 

Problems this suggestion is meant to solve:

• designing large persistent missions (caucus pendulum, foothold syria) which give the players many options for how to complete the mission is very cumbersome with the current process of needing to place one aircraft of each type at each potential spawn point for each potential player
• ramp and runway spawn slots are extremely limited in number, the current method makes it very difficult to strike a balance between allowing a large number of players a large variety of aircraft and making sure people don't spawn on top of each other and explode on the ramp
• the current method of placing player aircraft results in needing to set the same frequencies and loadouts dozens to hundreds of times if the mission designer wishes to allow for many people to spawn any aircraft from multiple airbases
• joining a server hosting a mission like Caucus Pendulum or Syria Foothold can be very confusing for players to understand what spawn locations and aircraft are available, with the list potentially ending up hundreds of units long

Edited June 6, 2023 by ShuRugal
clarified problems this is meant to solve

[Ashayar]

I tried to ask something (with my low understandind, it is a way more basic idea than yours). I hope you will have more success

 

[ShuRugal]

Bump

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[ShuRugal]

Bump.  I see we got something which will help along these lines in the form of mass-pasting aircraft settings, but we still really need a better way to allow players in large missions to choose from many different types of aircraft without requiring hundreds of spawns created.

[ShuRugal]

bump

[Exorcet]

On 6/6/2023 at 10:12 AM, ShuRugal said:

Depending on spawn type set (parking, runway, air) perform a collision check and:

• 1. 1. if no collision detected, spawn
     2. if collision detected:
        • advance to next parking slot and recheck collision
        • displace left/right on the runway threshold or select next available runway (if applicable) and recheck collision
        • displace air start position left/right/up and recheck collision

 

This may not be enough to prevent collisions. The collision check may succeed if a plane is approaching the spot, but not there yet. Effectively this can create planes spawning out of nowhere into open spaces that a returning player is trying to go to and that can lead to collisions

This is possible in DCS as it is now as far as I know, but it's less likely since DCS as is won't iterate through all parking spots.

It might be worth it to tie this system in with a revised ATC that can separate an airbase into launch and recovery zones so that planes will only spawn in designated launch areas and returning planes won't be directed to these areas.

 

An alternative to the space checking that I'd suggest is to leave spawns as they are now, but simply add a new option for type, called custom, or player defined, or something like that. Aircraft would still be tied to specific locations, but the type of aircraft would up to the player using a list defined by the mission maker. The complication here is that different planes have different spot requirements, but by defining the list in the ME, the ME can take the largest plane in the list and use its placement limits to limit the valid parking spots.

Some kind of multi unit slot would be very nice to have though.

[Tippis]

What it needs is to not make spawning the start of the process, but rather the mission planning, where you create flights and packages — live and in real-time — and those get assigned to available starting and parking spots. Only then do you get to pick a planned flight to slot into and appear at the assigned, and until then, the plan is non-blocking — you've got a suggested booking of a slot, but nothing actually gets locked in until the spawn happens.

This means that the entire ME needs to be a real-time affair that can be accessed before you even get to the flight picker. Coincidentally, this would also tie in well with a much-needed universal DTC system so the planning isn't completely locked into what's in the mission file, but rather in part (or fully) set up by that live planning phase.

[ShuRugal]

On 11/12/2023 at 8:41 PM, Exorcet said:

This may not be enough to prevent collisions. The collision check may succeed if a plane is approaching the spot, but not there yet. Effectively this can create planes spawning out of nowhere into open spaces that a returning player is trying to go to and that can lead to collisions

This is possible in DCS as it is now as far as I know, but it's less likely since DCS as is won't iterate through all parking spots.

It might be worth it to tie this system in with a revised ATC that can separate an airbase into launch and recovery zones so that planes will only spawn in designated launch areas and returning planes won't be directed to these areas.

 

An alternative to the space checking that I'd suggest is to leave spawns as they are now, but simply add a new option for type, called custom, or player defined, or something like that. Aircraft would still be tied to specific locations, but the type of aircraft would up to the player using a list defined by the mission maker. The complication here is that different planes have different spot requirements, but by defining the list in the ME, the ME can take the largest plane in the list and use its placement limits to limit the valid parking spots.

Some kind of multi unit slot would be very nice to have though.

I probably wasn't clear in how i worded it, but yes, my thought was that the new spawning behaviors would co-exist with the 'pre-set' spawn behavior we currently get.

as far as detecting collisions being unreliable, literally anything would be better than what we currently have, where there is a very real risk of spawning on top of someone who has parked in that slot for re-arming, or who is taxiing out from parking and doesn't know where all the spawns are to dodge them.  I've been on both sides of both types of collision plenty of times.