Workaround?

[Mochizuki_Mk19]

I know this kinda sounds stupid, but is there any workaround so I can play the campaign without actually taking off? For now if I don't I will block devil 4 and probably also my wingman.

So far the best would be, I just perform a landing pattern once launched and let devil 1-2 go on route. I'm not a hornet guy but I really enjoy the way of playing this campaign...

 

Edit: I wonder if changing the position of devil 1 on deck would do the trick, for example where those 2 (alert 5?) vfa-34 hornets are parking so I don't block devil 4.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Mochizuki_Mk19

[Sandman Simulations]

1 hour ago, Mochizuki_Mk19 said:

I know this kinda sounds stupid, but is there any workaround so I can play the campaign without actually taking off? For now if I don't I will block devil 4 and probably also my wingman.

So far the best would be, I just perform a landing pattern once launched and let devil 1-2 go on route. I'm not a hornet guy but I really enjoy the way of playing this campaign...

 

Edit: I wonder if changing the position of devil 1 on deck would do the trick, for example where those 2 (alert 5?) vfa-34 hornets are parking so I don't block devil 4.

 

Hi,

Thank you for your message. Unfortunately the campaign is not designed to be played without flying. You can do it but as you said it needs you to takeoff and land or eject to get the debriefing and information for the next mission. As you said if you don't take off so won't Devil 4 or your wingman.

Other problem is the AI deck behavior. Unfortunately there is no option for mission designer to set certain aircraft to spawn on certain spot on the deck. They will spawn on next empty parking place. Only way to "select" spawning place is to make aircraft to spawn in certain order. In this campaign you squadron mates need to spawn after you because you first need to select tasking for them. There was also lots of problems with AI crashing each other on the deck and that is why Devil 4 is set to start up only after player starts taxiing.

I agree that it would be interesting just to send your squadron for mission and watch the results. 

 

[Mochizuki_Mk19]

1 hour ago, Sandman Simulations said:

Hi,

Thank you for your message. Unfortunately the campaign is not designed to be played without flying. You can do it but as you said it needs you to takeoff and land or eject to get the debriefing and information for the next mission. As you said if you don't take off so won't Devil 4 or your wingman.

Other problem is the AI deck behavior. Unfortunately there is no option for mission designer to set certain aircraft to spawn on certain spot on the deck. They will spawn on next empty parking place. Only way to "select" spawning place is to make aircraft to spawn in certain order. In this campaign you squadron mates need to spawn after you because you first need to select tasking for them. There was also lots of problems with AI crashing each other on the deck and that is why Devil 4 is set to start up only after player starts taxiing.

I agree that it would be interesting just to send your squadron for mission and watch the results. 

 

Thanks for the reply! So there is basically no workaround. If I may say, I hope that you'll probably make a similar dynamic campaign for the F-14 in the future (not saying Operation Sandworm is bad... I've not finished it yet but so far I love it!).

 

Another question though: if I land at some divert, say Al Minhad AFB, does the debrief come out? Because landing on the ground is much easier than on the carrier and I don't worry about blocking alert 5 planes and so.

[Sandman Simulations]

19 minutes ago, Mochizuki_Mk19 said:

Thanks for the reply! So there is basically no workaround. If I may say, I hope that you'll probably make a similar dynamic campaign for the F-14 in the future (not saying Operation Sandworm is bad... I've not finished it yet but so far I love it!).

During development process of this campaign I have told to myself about once a week to remember that never again make a dynamic campaign. Maybe it wouldn't be as laborious next time... never say never

19 minutes ago, Mochizuki_Mk19 said:

Another question though: if I land at some divert, say Al Minhad AFB, does the debrief come out? Because landing on the ground is much easier than on the carrier and I don't worry about blocking alert 5 planes and so.

After takeoff you may land anywhere and debriefing will be available. Maybe not so realistic to but there should be no problem to end every mission by landing on ground.

[Mochizuki_Mk19]

20 minutes ago, Sandman Simulations said:

During development process of this campaign I have told to myself about once a week to remember that never again make a dynamic campaign. Maybe it wouldn't be as laborious next time... never say never

After takeoff you may land anywhere and debriefing will be available. Maybe not so realistic to but there should be no problem to end every mission by landing on ground.

Hahahaha, but hey, taking lead of 9 aircraft (without myself ofc) is a crazy experience with high degree of freedom. I've seen enough to know sometimes DCS AI are crazy and uncontrollable, but that's not the fault of the campaign designer.

 

Since I just landed at Al Minhad and waiting for my Devils to RTB, some thoughts about mission 3: the USAF tankers got shot down, since their tracks are above an area with no air superiority. The 2 F-16s got distracted by some bandits from the north, and some other bad guys to the south (prob. coming from Bandar-e-Jask) fired tones of missiles on them. Maybe more escorts, a division of 4?

Another thing that would be nice to have would be, if AI flights hits bingo fuel, and if I can get a radio messege from them, then maybe I will know when to send them home. Although lost aircraft doesn't seem to affect the number of usable hornets in the next mission, I believe K/L ratio is relative for battlefield assessment?

Edited August 1, 2023 by Mochizuki_Mk19

[Sandman Simulations]

35 minutes ago, Mochizuki_Mk19 said:

Hahahaha, but hey, taking lead of 9 aircraft (without myself ofc) is a crazy experience with high degree of freedom. I've seen enough to know sometimes DCS AI are crazy and uncontrollable, but that's not the fault of the campaign designer.

 

Since I just landed at Al Minhad and waiting for my Devils to RTB, some thoughts about mission 3: the USAF tankers got shot down, since their tracks are above an area with no air superiority. The 2 F-16s got distracted by some bandits from the north, and some other bad guys to the south (prob. coming from Bandar-e-Jask) fired tones of missiles on them. Maybe more escorts, a division of 4?

Another thing that would be nice to have would be, if AI flights hits bingo fuel, and if I can get a radio messege from them, then maybe I will know when to send them home. Although lost aircraft doesn't seem to affect the number of usable hornets in the next mission, I believe K/L ratio is relative for battlefield assessment?

 

It's true that in early phase of the campaign tankers may get in a bit dangerous situation but it will be more safe for them when you get air superiority level bit higher.

You are right that lost aircraft doesn't affect your aircraft count in the next mission. Ratio between killed own / enemy aircrafts determines the air superiority level for the next mission and that determines active enemy airbases and number of enemy air units.

Bingo call could be a good idea. Option to get information about AI fuel level was introduced by ED so late during developing of this campaign that I decided not to include it. But it could be one feature to be added. I'll put it on my list. 

One reason I'm not very eager to develop another dynamic campaign is that at least build in the way this one is build updating the campaign is an absolutely massive task. There is about 250 different F/A-18s in each mission and about 50 different missions so it makes more than 12000 lines of triggers and voice overs to be fed in just to add something like that quite simple bingo call. To be honest I would build it in a different way if I would start now.

[Mochizuki_Mk19]

33 minutes ago, Sandman Simulations said:

It's true that in early phase of the campaign tankers may get in a bit dangerous situation but it will be more safe for them when you get air superiority level bit higher.

You are right that lost aircraft doesn't affect your aircraft count in the next mission. Ratio between killed own / enemy aircrafts determines the air superiority level for the next mission and that determines active enemy airbases and number of enemy air units.

Bingo call could be a good idea. Option to get information about AI fuel level was introduced by ED so late during developing of this campaign that I decided not to include it. But it could be one feature to be added. I'll put it on my list. 

One reason I'm not very eager to develop another dynamic campaign is that at least build in the way this one is build updating the campaign is an absolutely massive task. There is about 250 different F/A-18s in each mission and about 50 different missions so it makes more than 12000 lines of triggers and voice overs to be fed in just to add something like that quite simple bingo call. To be honest I would build it in a different way if I would start now.

Really appreciate your work... and much respect there. Even now it already makes tons of fun, the biggest enemy for me now is to prevent the guys from bailing out lol

The nature of dynamic campaign is that if I use different strategies every time then it doesn't look the same. And plus each mission in DCS (launch & recovery included) lasts for 2 hours +... I will enjoy the contents for now and looking forward to future updates. Cheers!

[Sandman Simulations]

3 hours ago, Mochizuki_Mk19 said:

Hahahaha, but hey, taking lead of 9 aircraft (without myself ofc) is a crazy experience with high degree of freedom. I've seen enough to know sometimes DCS AI are crazy and uncontrollable, but that's not the fault of the campaign designer.

 

Since I just landed at Al Minhad and waiting for my Devils to RTB, some thoughts about mission 3: the USAF tankers got shot down, since their tracks are above an area with no air superiority. The 2 F-16s got distracted by some bandits from the north, and some other bad guys to the south (prob. coming from Bandar-e-Jask) fired tones of missiles on them. Maybe more escorts, a division of 4?

Another thing that would be nice to have would be, if AI flights hits bingo fuel, and if I can get a radio messege from them, then maybe I will know when to send them home. Although lost aircraft doesn't seem to affect the number of usable hornets in the next mission, I believe K/L ratio is relative for battlefield assessment?

 

Actually all AI flights should RTB without order when they hit bingo fuel. Does not work every time if they consume too much fuel on their way back to the carrier but sometimes they even have brain to go to tanker on the way home

[Mochizuki_Mk19]

9 minutes ago, Sandman Simulations said:

Actually all AI flights should RTB without order when they hit bingo fuel. Does not work every time if they consume too much fuel on their way back to the carrier but sometimes they even have brain to go to tanker on the way home

So theoretically there is no need to call RTB via F10 menu unless I confirm that they have no weapons left?

I did observe that AIs go to tanker before going home, there's then this old question of S-3B having too less fuel so if more than 2 aircrafts attempt to refuel the latter ones just get 0 lbs and the S-3B goes home. Have you considered adding 1 more S-3B? KC-135s are fine though, but I believe the AI goes to the tankers based on distance.

[Sandman Simulations]

6 hours ago, Mochizuki_Mk19 said:

So theoretically there is no need to call RTB via F10 menu unless I confirm that they have no weapons left?

I did observe that AIs go to tanker before going home, there's then this old question of S-3B having too less fuel so if more than 2 aircrafts attempt to refuel the latter ones just get 0 lbs and the S-3B goes home. Have you considered adding 1 more S-3B? KC-135s are fine though, but I believe the AI goes to the tankers based on distance.

Sometimes you may want to call your squadron to abort mission like if you for example notice enemy air power to be too extensive or strike packages sead support gets shot down.

[Mochizuki_Mk19]

I think I'm kind of stuck. I repeated the last mission (I believe, at least from the name and description) 3 times already, but cannot let the enemy air defense go under 30%-40%. I've been sending SEAD operations all the time, destroying 2 mid-range SAMs and 2 short-range SAMs in each single mission (which is pretty much the best one can achieve since in this phase there is no long-range SAMs any more!), but the numbers just refuse to go under 30%. All strategic targets are occupied by friendly forces before I launched strikes on them, and I have air superiority >90%. I really want to let the A-10s do their job, because CAS missions flown by my hornets don't seem to have much effectiveness...

[Sandman Simulations]

3 hours ago, Mochizuki_Mk19 said:

I think I'm kind of stuck. I repeated the last mission (I believe, at least from the name and description) 3 times already, but cannot let the enemy air defense go under 30%-40%. I've been sending SEAD operations all the time, destroying 2 mid-range SAMs and 2 short-range SAMs in each single mission (which is pretty much the best one can achieve since in this phase there is no long-range SAMs any more!), but the numbers just refuse to go under 30%. All strategic targets are occupied by friendly forces before I launched strikes on them, and I have air superiority >90%. I really want to let the A-10s do their job, because CAS missions flown by my hornets don't seem to have much effectiveness...

Congratulations that you have made it so far. It's true that the end part of the campaign is not the easiest one. I have no play through instructions to give but below there are some tips.

Spoiler

About destroying SAMs. Mission debriefing just tells if you have suppressed or destroyed SAM-sites. There is a huge difference between suppressing SA-6 site by destroying the radar unit (in real life it can be replaced in hours) or making it inoperable for good by destroying or even only damaging also missile launchers and support units. One SEAD flight can't always make it. It should be enough to take totally out one SA-6 and maybe additionally one Rapier to get Air Defense level one step down. 

It should be enough to get down from Enemy Air Defense level 30-40% if you send one SEAD flight to areas A, D and E. Or if they are not your sharpest pencils (it is still AI) maybe two to D. Down from 20-30% it is more difficult of course but same rules apply. At the moment there is a bug discussed here: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/325997-dcs-fa-18c-flaming-sunrise-campaign-by-sandman-simulations/?do=findComment&comment=5243211. It should be fixed in next DCS update. Hope they release it.

At the end stage of the campaign three CAS flights to Bandar Abbas area should do it if you simultaneously can keep enemy fighters away (not a problem with your Air Superiority level >90%) and prevent enemy attack helicopters and SU-25s killing our ground troops. Of course it is much easier if you can get Air Defense level low enough to get A-10s to help you. They are quite powerful.

 

It you still can't make it with tips above please provide me with the mission name you are stuck in so I can try to recreate the situation and check if there is some script error preventing things going like it should.

[Mochizuki_Mk19]

11 hours ago, Sandman Simulations said:

Congratulations that you have made it so far. It's true that the end part of the campaign is not the easiest one. I have no play through instructions to give but below there are some tips.

  Hide contents

About destroying SAMs. Mission debriefing just tells if you have suppressed or destroyed SAM-sites. There is a huge difference between suppressing SA-6 site by destroying the radar unit (in real life it can be replaced in hours) or making it inoperable for good by destroying or even only damaging also missile launchers and support units. One SEAD flight can't always make it. It should be enough to take totally out one SA-6 and maybe additionally one Rapier to get Air Defense level one step down. 

It should be enough to get down from Enemy Air Defense level 30-40% if you send one SEAD flight to areas A, D and E. Or if they are not your sharpest pencils (it is still AI) maybe two to D. Down from 20-30% it is more difficult of course but same rules apply. At the moment there is a bug discussed here: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/325997-dcs-fa-18c-flaming-sunrise-campaign-by-sandman-simulations/?do=findComment&comment=5243211. It should be fixed in next DCS update. Hope they release it.

At the end stage of the campaign three CAS flights to Bandar Abbas area should do it if you simultaneously can keep enemy fighters away (not a problem with your Air Superiority level >90%) and prevent enemy attack helicopters and SU-25s killing our ground troops. Of course it is much easier if you can get Air Defense level low enough to get A-10s to help you. They are quite powerful.

 

It you still can't make it with tips above please provide me with the mission name you are stuck in so I can try to recreate the situation and check if there is some script error preventing things going like it should.

Much appreciated for the tip!! Yes indeed I didn't know if the SAMs were destroyed or only suppressed (more likely the latter), But I have something in mind why they were not completely wiped out.

The AAAs are pretty doing their job preventing my hornets from supporting ground troops, so I really want to see the A-10s their, then I have much more freedom with ATO.

 

Regarding the bug you mentioned, I also experienced that myself, I remember sending 4 aircrafts including myself for SEAD at Bandar-e-Jask but failed to find anything active there, my wingman refused to attack air defenses and the other Devil flight just returned with full loadout. I wasn't stuck their though because I also sent SEAD flights to other SAMs, probably that's why.

Anyway I'm gonna try another strategy today and let you know the results!

[Sandman Simulations]

41 minutes ago, Mochizuki_Mk19 said:

Much appreciated for the tip!! Yes indeed I didn't know if the SAMs were destroyed or only suppressed (more likely the latter), But I have something in mind why they were not completely wiped out.

The AAAs are pretty doing their job preventing my hornets from supporting ground troops, so I really want to see the A-10s their, then I have much more freedom with ATO.

 

Regarding the bug you mentioned, I also experienced that myself, I remember sending 4 aircrafts including myself for SEAD at Bandar-e-Jask but failed to find anything active there, my wingman refused to attack air defenses and the other Devil flight just returned with full loadout. I wasn't stuck their though because I also sent SEAD flights to other SAMs, probably that's why.

Anyway I'm gonna try another strategy today and let you know the results!

Thanks. I'm also eager to hear if you find some other working strategy so let me know.