Quest 2 scene "vibrating" around the edges and airborne objects ghosting/smearing

[Granny]

Hello

I am continuing to have two issues in DCS 2.9, in VR on my Quest 2.   

First, In straight and level flight everything is fine.  When executing a rolling maneuver the scene has "vibration". I don't think its stutter, because the actual roll maneuver is smooth and the scene at the aircraft's 12 O'clock is smooth.  The vibration is noticeable as you move outward from the nose of the airplane and is worst around the periphery.  It is not associated with head movement,  its fixed around the aircraft.  I do not notice any tearing.

Second, other aircraft in the scene ghost and smear, IOW the corners and  edges of the model leave a visual trail behind them when they move fore or aft in the scene.  When maneuvering laterally a ghost image will often appear (i/e an F-16 with its single vertical stab, will appear to have 2 vertical stabs). I have noticed that this problem reduces some if I get rid of upscaling and sharpening, but then I get significant aliasing in the middle distance.

These issues do not occur in 2D on my monitor (LG HD WQHD 3440x1440) even with fairly high graphic settings.  The issues do not occur in my Quest 2 in any other application or game. I have also reached out to Oculus and did significant troubleshooting with them, nothing is having an effect. 

It is not my GPU, I have used two different GPUs,  (GTX 1080TI and RX 6700 RT) and get the same results.   I have reload the drivers for Oculus and for my GPUs.  I have overclocked and removed the overclocking. (overclocking the RX6700RT did help with performance some).

It is not my USB cable, its transmitting at 2.6Gbps.

I have removed all the unofficial mods, and emptied the Metashader folder and fxo folder and run DCS repair utility several times.

I have adjusted setting for days, increasing Pixel Density does seem to help somewhat (seems to move the vibration farther outward, decreases the amplitude of the shaking) but anything above 1.5-1.6PD causes performance issues.  The settings I have now seem to work best but it is still far from ideal.

Also, I have Turbo mode ON in OpenZR tool kit. It does seem to help performance. 

Any help is appreciated. I have attached logs and images of my settings for your review.  System Specs are below (OS is Windows 11)

System Type    x64-based PC
System SKU    SKU
Processor    AMD Ryzen 5 5500, 3600 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date    American Megatrends Inc. 3002, 2/23/2023
SMBIOS Version    3.3
Embedded Controller Version    255.255
BIOS Mode    UEFI
BaseBoard Manufacturer    ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC.
BaseBoard Product    TUF GAMING B550M-PLUS WIFI II
BaseBoard Version    Rev X.0x
Platform Role    Desktop
Secure Boot State    Off
PCR7 Configuration    Elevation Required to View
Windows Directory    C:\Windows
System Directory    C:\Windows\system32
Boot Device    \Device\HarddiskVolume4
Locale    United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer    Version = "10.0.22621.2506"
User Name    AlsGamingPC\allan
Time Zone    Central Standard Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM)    32.0 GB
Total Physical Memory    31.8 GB
Available Physical Memory    25.8 GB
Total Virtual Memory    45.3 GB
Available Virtual Memory    35.9 GB
Page File Space    13.5 GB
Page File    C:\pagefile.sys
Kernel DMA Protection    Off
Virtualization-based security    Not enabled
Windows Defender Application Control policy    Enforced
Windows Defender Application Control user mode policy    Off
Device Encryption Support    Elevation Required to View
Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions    Yes
Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions    Yes
Hyper-V - Virtualization Enabled in Firmware    No
Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection    Yes
 

dcs.log

Edited March 8, 2024 by Granny
spelling

[rob10]

Try turning FSR off.  Upscaling using DLSS often gives some of what you're describing so I assume that FSR does too.

[Granny]

12 minutes ago, rob10 said:

Try turning FSR off.  Upscaling using DLSS often gives some of what you're describing so I assume that FSR does too.

Thanks, tried.  It reduced both issues a bit, but didn't make them go away.  It also introduced some pretty gross aliasing,  shimmery everywhere like flying through water.  I turned on TAA after that and that helped the aliasing but pretty much undid the improvement made by turning off FSR.  Then I swapped TAA for MSAA which just made everything worse and I got some actual stuttering.

[PawlaczGMD]

The "vibrating" at the edges sounds like motion reprojection. This indicates you have a low framerate. Check it, if so, decrease settings or resolution. If you can't hold 1/2 of the nominal hardware framerate, it is a problem. In fact, your GPU is on what I'd call a low end of viability for DCS VR. 

The ghosting is caused by TAA. It might be worse because of your low framerate. I just use FSR with TAA and accept the ghosting. With my framerate, it's not too bad. No AA makes terrain look really crappy on my headset, just in the way you describe (Crystal), and MSAA is very expensive and barely makes a difference. It might be the same for you. I have also noticed that the game looks a lot worse without TAA in my headset compared to on the 2D screen. 

It might be worth for ED to look into how no AA or MSAA looks in VR. I think it looks really bad, much much worse than the 2D mirror on my monitor. This might be some kind of graphical bug exclusive to VR.

TLDR: use some debug tool to tell us your framerate when the issues occur.

Edited March 8, 2024 by PawlaczGMD

[Granny]

1 hour ago, PawlaczGMD said:

The "vibrating" at the edges sounds like motion reprojection. This indicates you have a low framerate. Check it, if so, decrease settings or resolution. If you can't hold 1/2 of the nominal hardware framerate, it is a problem. In fact, your GPU is on what I'd call a low end of viability for DCS VR. 

The ghosting is caused by TAA. It might be worse because of your low framerate. I just use FSR with TAA and accept the ghosting. With my framerate, it's not too bad. No AA makes terrain look really crappy on my headset, just in the way you describe (Crystal), and MSAA is very expensive and barely makes a difference. It might be the same for you. I have also noticed that the game looks a lot worse without TAA in my headset compared to on the 2D screen. 

It might be worth for ED to look into how no AA or MSAA looks in VR. I think it looks really bad, much much worse than the 2D mirror on my monitor. This might be some kind of graphical bug exclusive to VR.

TLDR: use some debug tool to tell us your framerate when the issues occur.

 

Thanks.  Sounds like you see similar things as I do.  So I've been playing around with Q2s refresh rate and monitoring FPS in the headset with the DTS overlay, and the OpenXR overlay.  At 72, 80, and 90Hz my FPS is exactly half the refresh rate (36, 40, 45FPS) Its tight and stable. That's with Oculus's default resolution.   For some reason at 120hz, it stays lock at 45fps, which I can't figure out.  I have tried 120hz in the past and I got up to 60fps, but it was unstable.  Today its locked at 45, and I don't have my FPS capped (I did increase the Max FPS all the way to max on the slider).   72Hz/36FPS was by far the worst,  the others were all about the same.  In all my runs the DTS overlays says I'm CPU bound "render thread"  and OpenXR overlay reported "rdr CPU" in the 7-9ms range,  "app GPU" 16.5-19.5,s range, and VRAM usage 6-9GB.  What all that means I have no idea. Kinda thought 45fps in the headset was respectable but maybe not?

Edited March 9, 2024 by Granny
spelling

[PawlaczGMD]

3 hours ago, Granny said:

Thanks.  Sounds like you see similar things as I do.  So I've been playing around with Q2s refresh rate and monitoring FPS in the headset with the DTS overlay, and the OpenXR overlay.  At 72, 80, and 90Hz my FPS is exactly half the refresh rate (36, 40, 45FPS) Its tight and stable. That's with Oculus's default resolution.   For some reason at 120hz, it stays lock at 45fps, which I can't figure out.  I have tried 120hz in the past and I got up to 60fps, but it was unstable.  Today its locked at 45, and I don't have my FPS capped (I did increase the Max FPS all the way to max on the slider).   72Hz/36FPS was by far the worst,  the others were all about the same.  In all my runs the DTS overlays says I'm CPU bound "render thread"  and OpenXR overlay reported "rdr CPU" in the 7-9ms range,  "app GPU" 16.5-19.5,s range, and VRAM usage 6-9GB.  What all that means I have no idea. Kinda thought 45fps in the headset was respectable but maybe not?

 

 

Are you using the multi threaded version of DCS? You really need to to even dream of using VR.

If your FPS is hard locked at 1/2 of the nominal rate, I believe this means you are actually constantly under, and motion reprojection is making up the difference. It is the Quest that is locking you at 1/2, not DCS. It has been a while since I sold my Q2 so I don't remember how it works exactly. I would try to reduce all DCS graphics settings to minimum, reduce pixel density in Q2, and check the FPS and performance. 

I was never CPU bound unless using quad views, so I don't have experience with this, but again this might just indicate your PC is below the spec required to run DCS in VR.

But overall you seem to have 2 independent issues:

- DCS looks like crap in VR without using TAA, which causes its own issues. I also experience this on Pimax Crystal with decent framerate. Seems to be either a VR headset display or DCS VR bug/issue.

- You are unable to sustain a minimum framerate at your current settings, which causes motion reprojection to kick in and ruin your day.

 

PS there might be a way to disable motion reprojection (asynchronous warp). If you find it, you will see what framerate you actually have.

Edited March 9, 2024 by PawlaczGMD

[Rapierarch]

Vibration is caused by upscaling of video stream on the headset from 2152pix to 3664pix.

I have no idea why you set it like that. Put the encoder resolution width to  3664 which is the native res.

Since you are there set the distortion curve Low to get sharper more defined visuals.

[Granny]

12 hours ago, PawlaczGMD said:

 

Are you using the multi threaded version of DCS? You really need to to even dream of using VR.

If your FPS is hard locked at 1/2 of the nominal rate, I believe this means you are actually constantly under, and motion reprojection is making up the difference. It is the Quest that is locking you at 1/2, not DCS. It has been a while since I sold my Q2 so I don't remember how it works exactly. I would try to reduce all DCS graphics settings to minimum, reduce pixel density in Q2, and check the FPS and performance. 

I was never CPU bound unless using quad views, so I don't have experience with this, but again this might just indicate your PC is below the spec required to run DCS in VR.

But overall you seem to have 2 independent issues:

- DCS looks like crap in VR without using TAA, which causes its own issues. I also experience this on Pimax Crystal with decent framerate. Seems to be either a VR headset display or DCS VR bug/issue.

- You are unable to sustain a minimum framerate at your current settings, which causes motion reprojection to kick in and ruin your day.

 

PS there might be a way to disable motion reprojection (asynchronous warp). If you find it, you will see what framerate you actually have.

 

Yes I am using MT.  So, good news.  I found in the Q2 headset itself there is an experimental setting that allows 120hz refresh rate for games that ask for it.  I turned this on and boom, FPS jumped up from45 to 60FPS. The vibrating is still there but its much less distracting than before.  FPS still seem to be stuck at 1/2 the refresh rate no matter what. It rarely goes over 60.  60FPS was stable inflight, but a little glitchy in graphically intense environments (Multiplayer, Marianas Map, on the ground with other players around).  I used ODT to shrink the FOV to 0.8, which helped that quite a bit.   Still CPU bound mostly,  once in a while I will see it flicker over to GPU bound in those graphically intense environments. I see this happen sometime when I try to max out the in-game graphic settings as well.   Anyway, I have finally seen some improvement, but still working on more. As for the TAA ghosting, I think you're right, I will just have to live with that.

[Granny]

8 hours ago, Rapierarch said:

Vibration is caused by upscaling of video stream on the headset from 2152pix to 3664pix.

I have no idea why you set it like that. Put the encoder resolution width to  3664 which is the native res.

Since you are there set the distortion curve Low to get sharper more defined visuals.

I got the 2152 from some youtube video on optimizing your settings.  I don't know what the magic is behind it, truth be told I really don't understand the numbers, but it works. I tried resetting to 3440, and also used "0" for default. Both made everything worse.  Not only did the "vibration" get worse, but got flickering and stuttering and frame drops, and DCS even crashed.  Returned to 2152 and back to smooth operations.  No idea what that means, I would think if 3440 is native, that would be the ideal settings.  SInce DCS 2.9 came out I've been using FSR, which I think is an AMD version of upscaling.  It helps a lot reducing aliasing with out too much performance hit.  Maybe I have an ODT/FSR conflict??

[PawlaczGMD]

4 hours ago, Granny said:

I got the 2152 from some youtube video on optimizing your settings.  I don't know what the magic is behind it, truth be told I really don't understand the numbers, but it works. I tried resetting to 3440, and also used "0" for default. Both made everything worse.  Not only did the "vibration" get worse, but got flickering and stuttering and frame drops, and DCS even crashed.  Returned to 2152 and back to smooth operations.  No idea what that means, I would think if 3440 is native, that would be the ideal settings.  SInce DCS 2.9 came out I've been using FSR, which I think is an AMD version of upscaling.  It helps a lot reducing aliasing with out too much performance hit.  Maybe I have an ODT/FSR conflict??

Yeah, your PC is just borderline when it comes to running DCS in VR. You have to use weird settings and suffer reprojection, which is frame interpolation, to make it playable. The only real solution is to upgrade your PC. Your problem is that you don't hold at least 1/2 of the nominal frame rate at any setting. 

[Qcumber]

On 3/9/2024 at 12:16 AM, Granny said:

Hello

I am continuing to have two issues in DCS 2.9, in VR on my Quest 2.   

First, In straight and level flight everything is fine.  When executing a rolling maneuver the scene has "vibration". I don't think its stutter, because the actual roll maneuver is smooth and the scene at the aircraft's 12 O'clock is smooth.  The vibration is noticeable as you move outward from the nose of the airplane and is worst around the periphery.  It is not associated with head movement,  its fixed around the aircraft.  I do not notice any tearing.

Second, other aircraft in the scene ghost and smear, IOW the corners and  edges of the model leave a visual trail behind them when they move fore or aft in the scene.  When maneuvering laterally a ghost image will often appear (i/e an F-16 with its single vertical stab, will appear to have 2 vertical stabs). I have noticed that this problem reduces some if I get rid of upscaling and sharpening, but then I get significant aliasing in the middle distance.

These issues do not occur in 2D on my monitor (LG HD WQHD 3440x1440) even with fairly high graphic settings.  The issues do not occur in my Quest 2 in any other application or game. I have also reached out to Oculus and did significant troubleshooting with them, nothing is having an effect. 

It is not my GPU, I have used two different GPUs,  (GTX 1080TI and RX 6700 RT) and get the same results.   I have reload the drivers for Oculus and for my GPUs.  I have overclocked and removed the overclocking. (overclocking the RX6700RT did help with performance some).

It is not my USB cable, its transmitting at 2.6Gbps.

I have removed all the unofficial mods, and emptied the Metashader folder and fxo folder and run DCS repair utility several times.

I have adjusted setting for days, increasing Pixel Density does seem to help somewhat (seems to move the vibration farther outward, decreases the amplitude of the shaking) but anything above 1.5-1.6PD causes performance issues.  The settings I have now seem to work best but it is still far from ideal.

Also, I have Turbo mode ON in OpenZR tool kit. It does seem to help performance. 

Any help is appreciated. I have attached logs and images of my settings for your review.  System Specs are below (OS is Windows 11)

System Type    x64-based PC
System SKU    SKU
Processor    AMD Ryzen 5 5500, 3600 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date    American Megatrends Inc. 3002, 2/23/2023
SMBIOS Version    3.3
Embedded Controller Version    255.255
BIOS Mode    UEFI
BaseBoard Manufacturer    ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC.
BaseBoard Product    TUF GAMING B550M-PLUS WIFI II
BaseBoard Version    Rev X.0x
Platform Role    Desktop
Secure Boot State    Off
PCR7 Configuration    Elevation Required to View
Windows Directory    C:\Windows
System Directory    C:\Windows\system32
Boot Device    \Device\HarddiskVolume4
Locale    United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer    Version = "10.0.22621.2506"
User Name    AlsGamingPC\allan
Time Zone    Central Standard Time
Installed Physical Memory (RAM)    32.0 GB
Total Physical Memory    31.8 GB
Available Physical Memory    25.8 GB
Total Virtual Memory    45.3 GB
Available Virtual Memory    35.9 GB
Page File Space    13.5 GB
Page File    C:\pagefile.sys
Kernel DMA Protection    Off
Virtualization-based security    Not enabled
Windows Defender Application Control policy    Enforced
Windows Defender Application Control user mode policy    Off
Device Encryption Support    Elevation Required to View
Hyper-V - VM Monitor Mode Extensions    Yes
Hyper-V - Second Level Address Translation Extensions    Yes
Hyper-V - Virtualization Enabled in Firmware    No
Hyper-V - Data Execution Protection    Yes
 

dcs.log 82.74 kB · 1 download

 

Try these settings. Set the oculus resolution slider full to the right to maximise output (it should give you about 2700x2800). Turn DCS PD down to 1.0. See how this looks with your settings.

To boost performance with your GPU try using quad views foveated rendering in fixed mode. You should be able to get a 30-40% increase but your peripheral resolution will be a bit blurry. 

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated

[Granny]

14 hours ago, Qcumber said:

Try these settings. Set the oculus resolution slider full to the right to maximise output (it should give you about 2700x2800). Turn DCS PD down to 1.0. See how this looks with your settings.

To boost performance with your GPU try using quad views foveated rendering in fixed mode. You should be able to get a 30-40% increase but your peripheral resolution will be a bit blurry. 

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated

Thanks, gave it a try.  Moving the Oculus Resolution slider all the way to the right gives 5408x2252.  I tried that with DCS PD at 1.0.  The results were mixed.  In cockpit detail improved a bit, text that was blurry before was easier to read.  However my FPS dropped from 60 to 50 and the "vibrating" around the edges became full on stutter and all aircraft maneuvers were jerky.  With my settings I was getting pretty smooth maneuvering even at 45FPS.  I did not use quad view, I have tried it before and found it looks basically like setting distortion curvature to high and introduced as many issues as it fixed.  I did change my distortion curvature to high, which made me feel like I needed to clean the lens and didn't really improve performance enough to help the stutter issue.  It was a good idea, just didn't work in my situation. Thanks.

[Qcumber]

7 hours ago, Granny said:

Thanks, gave it a try.  Moving the Oculus Resolution slider all the way to the right gives 5408x2252.  I tried that with DCS PD at 1.0.  The results were mixed.  In cockpit detail improved a bit, text that was blurry before was easier to read.  However my FPS dropped from 60 to 50 and the "vibrating" around the edges became full on stutter and all aircraft maneuvers were jerky.  With my settings I was getting pretty smooth maneuvering even at 45FPS.  I did not use quad view, I have tried it before and found it looks basically like setting distortion curvature to high and introduced as many issues as it fixed.  I did change my distortion curvature to high, which made me feel like I needed to clean the lens and didn't really improve performance enough to help the stutter issue.  It was a good idea, just didn't work in my situation. Thanks.

With ASW if you drop below 45 it will be very stuttery. You could try for 72/36 fps. Or turn off ASW completely and aim for 30-40 FPS. This will give you a smoother (but not perfect) image. You can use oculus tray tool to toggle ASW on/off and forced. 

With your hardware you need to make some compromises. I had an Rx 6700 and found it could run DCS ok with a rift s but my Pico 4 was too much. A Q2 I halfway between so you might be able to get something to work.