Rand-StudyFuture-of-Air-Combat

[GGTharos]

Irbis-E is a very powerful radar, but the radar physics don't seem to support that claim - or maybe it is a typo.

 

It would be able to detect an RCS 0.1M^2 at 90km, if it can detect a 3m^2 target at 400km. A 0.01m^2 target would be detected at about 23km. If we're generous and say they have fairly advanced algorithms, special waveforms, etc, we can say 45km - that's increasing detection range twice, and it IS generous. Further, the Irbis has been reported to generate more noise internally, so faint returns might be drowned out - it's all one huge balancing act.

 

And how for example are these 2 radars weaker, especially the FGA-35? Or the Irbis-E combined with advanced electronic countermeasures and electronic warfare system and able to detect fighters at approx. 400km or targets with RCS = 0.01 square meters at ranges out to 90 kilometers. And interesting how are western design radars performing in detection of similar sized objects?

[topol-m]

I don`t think Tikhomirov NIIP are just making false advertising and are exaggerating stats 4 times that their real values are, but we`ll have to wait and see the official stats when mass production and export begins (hope some traitor doesn`t run away with the aircraft to Turkey or Japan again). And once again how are F-15/18/35/22, EF-2000, Gripen, Rafale in detection of both standart RCS and low RCS fighters? Not better i presume?

 

And any bad talking about Zhuk-A FGA-35?

Edited April 18, 2009 by topol-m

[GGTharos]

Why 'bad talk'? I haven't heard anything at all about that radar.

 

As for NIIP doing false advertizing - I haven't seen their advertizement, just claims spread around on the web. All the actual advertisements have shown more down-to earth numbers.

 

Insofar as an F-15 goes, it could detect a MiG-29 or F-1 in clutter at about 80nm away (depending on circumstances, closer - like 60nm) ... that was with the APG-63v(1) which is pretty old compared to today's stuff. No one has made any claims as to how AESA has changed this - but the detection ranges will probably be less than of Irbis-E (it has more peak power, so longer detection range).

 

I don`t think Tikhomirov NIIP are just making false advertising and are exaggerating stats 4 times that their real values are, but we`ll have to wait and see the official stats when mass production and export begins (hope some traitor doesn`t run away with the aircraft to Turkey or Japan again). And once again how are F-15/18/35/22, EF-2000, Gripen, Rafale in detection of both standart RCS and low RCS fighters? Not better i presume?

 

And any bad talking about Zhuk-A FGA-35?

[topol-m]

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Avionics/Zhuk-AE-multimode-airborne-radar-Russian-Federation.html

To add some info: The Zhuk-A FGA35 AESA radar is operating with a 700 mm diameter antenna with between 1,000 and 1,100 TR modules. The radar is capable of tracking up to 60 air targets and engaging six of them.

 

So it seem after all modern russian radars are far from being "antique" or inferior to their western competitors and are even better than a lot of them.

[Wilde]

if it can detect a 3m^2 target at 400km

 

I think you made a mistake here. It's not limited to this range by its resolution (or however it is called in radar-speech). It's limited by physics. Earth curvature prevents you from detecting targets beyond that at reasonable altitudes.

 

edit: The given figure is probably meant to advertise the system's capability to detect fighter sized aircraft at maximum possible range. Otherwise there surely were some people claiming that at max range it could only detect a Zeppelin or a flying skyscraper.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Wilde

[GGTharos]

I already know its parameters, I just said I haven't heard anything about it ;)

Whether they are inferior or not remains to be seen.

 

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Avionics/Zhuk-AE-multimode-airborne-radar-Russian-Federation.html

To add some info: The Zhuk-A FGA35 AESA radar is operating with a 700 mm diameter antenna with between 1,000 and 1,100 TR modules. The radar is capable of tracking up to 60 air targets and engaging six of them.

 

So it seem after all modern russian radars are far from being "antique" or inferior to their western competitors and are even better than a lot of them.

[GGTharos]

Detection range is detection range - RCS is 'Radar Cross Section' and it has zero to do with resolution.

 

I also see you're not really familiar with the radar horizon. Here, this might help: http://radarproblems.com/calculators/horizon.htm

 

I think you made a mistake here. It's not limited to this range by its resolution (or however it is called in radar-speech). It's limited by physics. Earth curvature prevents you from detecting targets beyond that at reasonable altitudes.

 

edit: The given figure is probably meant to advertise the system's capability to detect fighter sized aircraft at maximum possible range. Otherwise there surely were some people claiming that at max range it could only detect a Zeppelin or a flying skyscraper.

[Wilde]

Detection range is detection range[/url]

 

Yes, but a pr-sheet stating "detecting a fighter at 400km" is not exactly a definition for detection range.

 

Also I know what an horizon is. But as I said, reasonable altitudes. A fighter is not supposed to fly at 13km height scanning for other fighters 600km away also at 13km height. So 400km is very close to the radar horizon of a fighter in practical use.

 

By the way, the AWACS pr-sheet is talking about a 400km range too...