RWR

[MBot]

I have to say I am mildly confused about the supposedly new high-fidelity RWR simulation. So far I haven't noticed anything special about the raw threat audio. When Handoff is selected I can hear a constant buzzing sound, but that doesn't change between search, lock or launch. Is the new RWR even implemented yet or is that still coming later?

Also interesting is for example when putting down an SA-8, it will show as an 8 and two U (unknown). Now I understand that the SA-8 has a separate search and track radar. But: (a) Why total 3 emitters for just one SA-8? (b) If the 8 is the track radar and the U is the search radar, why is one recognized by type and the other isn't? (c) If the 8 is the track radar and the U is the search radar, why is 8 showing up when I am not even locked yet?

[JNelson]

On 5/25/2024 at 11:23 AM, MBot said:

I have to say I am mildly confused about the supposedly new high-fidelity RWR simulation. So far I haven't noticed anything special about the raw threat audio. When Handoff is selected I can hear a constant buzzing sound, but that doesn't change between search, lock or launch. Is the new RWR even implemented yet or is that still coming later?

Also interesting is for example when putting down an SA-8, it will show as an 8 and two U (unknown). Now I understand that the SA-8 has a separate search and track radar. But: (a) Why total 3 emitters for just one SA-8? (b) If the 8 is the track radar and the U is the search radar, why is one recognized by type and the other isn't? (c) If the 8 is the track radar and the U is the search radar, why is 8 showing up when I am not even locked yet?

Hi each emitter is characterised by certain things that can be measured, like prf, prf jitter, carrier frequency, power etc. These are then used to match against a table of contacts to identify the emitter type, the limit in the ALR-46 is 64 entries per table. The limited nature of this table means some radars are left out of this table usually because they are not a threat. 

In DCS units still do track their target with their radar despite not "locking", clearest example of this is the fan song radar which will track the target before actually "locking" the target. So the model accounts for this to allow a more accurate depiction of what is actually happening. Another possibility is that you are in a sidelobe for the radar as it tracks something else.

As for the handoff audio, each tone is generated based on the radar characteristics, the audio is not raw per say but based on the measured characteristics of the emitter, including things like PRF and PRF modulation which results in a unique sound. There is currently a bug, this audio should be played as the new guy indication but instead a fixed tone is being played this will be resolved in the next patch so you will correctly hear the sound of the target as the new guy along with the diamond going to the new guy for a brief period.

 

Hopefully that helps.

[EXPENDTripwire]

On 5/25/2024 at 6:23 PM, MBot said:

When Handoff is selected I can hear a constant buzzing sound, but that doesn't change between search, lock or launch.

 

19 hours ago, JNelson said:

As for the handoff audio, each tone is generated based on the radar characteristics, the audio is not raw per say but based on the measured characteristics of the emitter, including things like PRF and PRF modulation which results in a unique sound. There is currently a bug, this audio should be played as the new guy indication but instead a fixed tone is being played this will be resolved in the next patch so you will correctly hear the sound of the target as the new guy along with the diamond going to the new guy for a brief period.

I admit, I haven't tested this extensively, but I too noticed that there didn't appear to be any audible difference based on lock vs launch. You mention a bug regarding the 'new guy' indication, but either I haven't understood your answer correctly, or you haven't covered off on the quoted part of MBot's question?

In my case it was an SA2 that was priority and set to handoff. The RWR provided a launch indication, as it does when you don't have handoff turned on, but am I expecting something that isn't realistic - different handoff audio based on lock vs launch?
 

[MBot]

Thank you very much for the feedback JNelson. As mentioned, there are still some aspects of the RWR that are unclear. So why does a single SA-8 show up as 3 seperate emitters instead of 2 (search and tracking radar)?

[JNelson]

8 hours ago, MBot said:

Thank you very much for the feedback JNelson. As mentioned, there are still some aspects of the RWR that are unclear. So why does a single SA-8 show up as 3 seperate emitters instead of 2 (search and tracking radar)?

The SA-8 has three different emitters. Two for search and one for track.

9 hours ago, EXPENDTripwire said:

 

I admit, I haven't tested this extensively, but I too noticed that there didn't appear to be any audible difference based on lock vs launch. You mention a bug regarding the 'new guy' indication, but either I haven't understood your answer correctly, or you haven't covered off on the quoted part of MBot's question?

In my case it was an SA2 that was priority and set to handoff. The RWR provided a launch indication, as it does when you don't have handoff turned on, but am I expecting something that isn't realistic - different handoff audio based on lock vs launch?
 

There will not be an audible difference between lock and launch. It is generally highly specific to the system how guidance is handled. For example in the F-4E the APQ-120 is always emitting it's guidance signal. Therefore there is no change between lock and launch. The ALR-46 was designed with the C and D band command guidance SAMs in mind. 

Edited May 29, 2024 by JNelson

[MBot]

31 minutes ago, JNelson said:

The SA-8 has three different emitters. Two for search and one for track.

Sorry my dumb question, but what would the two search radars of the SA-8 be? I am aware of one search radar, one target tracking radar and additionally two separate missile tracking radars (but why would they be on if I am not engaged by missiles yet). Am I missing something or is that a DCS thing that every emitter is on all the time?

http://www.flak11.de/9K33-Start.htm

[JNelson]

On 5/29/2024 at 10:53 PM, MBot said:

Sorry my dumb question, but what would the two search radars of the SA-8 be? I am aware of one search radar, one target tracking radar and additionally two separate missile tracking radars (but why would they be on if I am not engaged by missiles yet). Am I missing something or is that a DCS thing that every emitter is on all the time?

http://www.flak11.de/9K33-Start.htm

It appears the SA-8 has two search beams. If you are curious yourself you can take a look at the database that was constructed for the RWR in the base game files. It's called rhaw.lua

 

If you are seeing the track radar on all the time it could be a bug, however it's not always obvious whether a unit is tracking something or not.

[MBot]

I am very sorry but I still do not quite get the audio of the RWR.

I set up a single SON-9 Fire Can and made it allied so it doesn't lock me up immediately and it keeps on searching. Visually the radar can be seen rotating at one revolution every 2 seconds. Yet the handoff audio is still just one constant tone. Shouldn't there be some pattern in the audio considering the dish is rotating 360°, or am I completely off here? Its the same with for example the SA-6 Straight Flush STR or the SA-8 in pure search mode.

[MBot]

Also there is zero difference in the audio between a Straight Flush in search mode (allied so it doesn't lock me up) and and track mode (hostile so it locks me up), even though these are two different radar systems. Something seems seriously off here.

[Bazz_Mulder]

I was trying to use handoff, but it's confusing as hell. I don't know how we can see mig21 on RWR from 180 nm. Furthermore, I caught myself constantly checking RWR and all directions outside the cockpit, as I don't know what can happen. It's like being confused by oversaturation with contradicting information.

This video sums it up nicely:

 

[MBot]

On 5/31/2024 at 8:46 PM, MBot said:

I am very sorry but I still do not quite get the audio of the RWR.

I set up a single SON-9 Fire Can and made it allied so it doesn't lock me up immediately and it keeps on searching. Visually the radar can be seen rotating at one revolution every 2 seconds. Yet the handoff audio is still just one constant tone. Shouldn't there be some pattern in the audio considering the dish is rotating 360°, or am I completely off here? Its the same with for example the SA-6 Straight Flush STR or the SA-8 in pure search mode.

 

On 5/31/2024 at 8:55 PM, MBot said:

Also there is zero difference in the audio between a Straight Flush in search mode (allied so it doesn't lock me up) and and track mode (hostile so it locks me up), even though these are two different radar systems. Something seems seriously off here.

Any feedback on these?

[MBot]

Latest patch provided a slight improvement with this:

Quote

RWR: Fixed Track Only Radars broadcasting with no target

Now the Straight Flush is correctly displayed either in search mode (S) or track mode (6). But the Handoff audio is still the identical ongoing constant tone for both search and track, even though these are two unique radar systems on the same vehicle. Its the same situation with with the SA-8.

Interestingly, the audio from the Shrike provides a distinguishable pattern of main and side lobes for rotating search radars. Shouldn't the RWR do the same?