Question about Laser Guided Bombs

[SloppyDog]

Hello all,

I have some questions about the employment of Laser Guided Bombs in the F-4E.

As far as I know, there are two methods to it: the first as shown by Red Kite, that uses the bombing table so Jester can calculate the parameters, insert on the computer and determine the bomb release point.

The second method as shown by the Grim Reapers, where you don't use the bombing table, just point Jester to the general area of the target and then he will calculate everything for the right release point:

 

I've tried both and I'm not having too much success with both of them, but I must say that the Grim Reapers method seems more accurate. It is my perception that Jester calculates the solution better than myself inputting the numbers manually.

So, my questions are: 
1) Is the bomb table (RCrtl+B) working or is it still in development. Sometimes it seems that the values don't work. Or maybe I'm really bad on flying by the numbers.

2) Are there any good tips and tricks to use LGBs? Altitudes, speeds, methods of target acquisition, etc...

TIA.

Edited June 22, 2024 by SloppyDog

[Zabuzard]

There seems to be a misunderstanding here. Option 2 has nothing to do with computing any bombing solutions, Jester wont automatically figure out anything.

If you want to drop a LGB, you have to make sure that it ballistically is roughly in the right area. Therefore, drop it like any dumb bomb. You have many ways to do that, but all of them include using the Bombing Tool to figure out parameters.

If you use the Pave Spike, TGT FIND is an excellent way of designating the target to attack. But that still requires you to input the data into the tool so that Jester can enter the right Drag Coefficient value into the computer.

The laser should only be used on the final 10s before impact to ensure you are not accidentally screwing it up, since the Pave Spike is extremely sensitive to any aircraft movement and if you just touch your stick while lasing, the bombs will miss as they bleed all their energy chasing your jumping laser beam.

Make sure you have actually set the correct laser code, remember that the ED weapon menu codes are not compatible yet (until the next patch) and you need to set the code via our Crew Chief menu instead).

All in all, treat and drop them like dumb bombs. Go laser only shortly before impact, when you are stable and dont need to touch the stick anymore. Make sure you are actually activating the laser (both cues solid). Enter all data into the bombing tool and try to follow it at least roughly.

If you are still having trouble, please send a short working SP track or a video, thank you :)

[SloppyDog]

5 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

There seems to be a misunderstanding here. Option 2 has nothing to do with computing any bombing solutions, Jester wont automatically figure out anything.

If you want to drop a LGB, you have to make sure that it ballistically is roughly in the right area. Therefore, drop it like any dumb bomb. You have many ways to do that, but all of them include using the Bombing Tool to figure out parameters. 

If you use the Pave Spike, TGT FIND is an excellent way of designating the target to attack. But that still requires you to input the data into the tool so that Jester can enter the right Drag Coefficient value into the computer.

Oh, thank you. Now it is clear. You gotta use the Wizzo, he's there to help us. And we have to fly by the numbers, no fiddling around with the plane.
 

5 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

The laser should only be used on the final 10s before impact to ensure you are not accidentally screwing it up, since the Pave Spike is extremely sensitive to any aircraft movement and if you just touch your stick while lasing, the bombs will miss as they bleed all their energy chasing your jumping laser beam.

 It is indeed sensitive. I was on autopilot, sitting at the WSO position, Iet a GBU-10 go and, whoa Nelly, the Phantom shuddered and the Pave Spike went bananas. But it is a nice touch.

 

5 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

The laser should only be used on the final 10s before impact to ensure you are not accidentally screwing it up, since the Pave Spike is extremely sensitive to any aircraft movement and if you just touch your stick while lasing, the bombs will miss as they bleed all their energy chasing your jumping laser beam.
 

Ok. I understand now. Only half-action with the controls. And by using the laser from a long distance, I suspect I was burning the pod by using it for too long...

5 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Make sure you have actually set the correct laser code, remember that the ED weapon menu codes are not compatible yet (until the next patch) and you need to set the code via our Crew Chief menu instead).

Ok, thanks. I didn't know that.
 

5 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

All in all, treat and drop them like dumb bombs. Go laser only shortly before impact, when you are stable and dont need to touch the stick anymore. Make sure you are actually activating the laser (both cues solid). Enter all data into the bombing tool and try to follow it at least roughly.

Ok, I got it. Lasing only when close enough and flying by the numbers. 

I'll attach a track when I have some success. 
 

[clanitho]

Laser guided bombs are working fine, you need practice.

[Monkman911]

For me the latest patch yesterday has made GBU's in the F-4E unusable. They worked fine yesterday morning, I installed patch 2.9.16.10523 and now the bombs will not track with the laser. I also noticed that even though I flew the numbers almost perfect, the bombs were landing 1/4 mile long. In the past I could use the pavespike even with dumb bombs as a poor man's CCRP method. I tested the GBU-12's on other airplanes and they worked as intended so I am guessing something with the F-4E's systems got janked.

[Zabuzard]

Would be surprising as none of that code was touched. You got a track at hand?

Usually these things turn out to be some form of user error as there are soo many ways to mess up (no offense btw).

Either case, a track would be supreme

[Monkman911]

I don't have a track but I'll try to get one uploaded. I've been using GBU's since the module came out and never had a problem until after the latest patch. What is really confusing to me is that the bombs are missing the "basket" by quite a bit, up to 400 meters in some cases. I set the bomb table to target find, Mk82 and add the target altitude, release airspeed and altitude. When flying the bombing run, I'm using the true airspeed indicator not the indicated airspeed. My profile is within 20 kts plus or minus and 50 feet plus or minus. I'm doing this from the front seat so I have the half action, full action and challenge button bound to my HOTAS. My laser codes match the bombs and the pod is up and running when I begin. I fly towards the target, dip my nose enough to get the reticle on what I want to hit and press full action. Holding down the bomb release to get steering cues I keep the wings lined up like they are supposed to be until bomb release and then I am moving the reticle to keep it on target. When you ask for a track are you looking for a DCS track file or TACVIEW?

[Monkman911]

After many bombing runs I was able to figure out why the bombs weren't hitting their target. If I fly towards the target and DO NOT make any corrections with the reticle until after they have dropped, they hit every time. I know before the patch I could make corrections running in and it would still work. At least I know now. 

[Zabuzard]

6 hours ago, Monkman911 said:

When you ask for a track are you looking for a DCS track file or TACVIEW?

A DCS track it would be then. As that allows us to replay the DCS scenario while the debugger is attached to inspect everything going on internally

5 hours ago, Monkman911 said:

After many bombing runs I was able to figure out why the bombs weren't hitting their target. If I fly towards the target and DO NOT make any corrections with the reticle until after they have dropped, they hit every time. I know before the patch I could make corrections running in and it would still work. At least I know now. 

Mh, odd. But glad you figured out something