ATFLIR isn't ground stablized after TDC depress for NAV designate

[SexyTomato]

If I want to move the targeting pod after a NAV designation, I need to TDC depress first. However, after that the pod isn't ground stablized in INR track as you can see in the track. If I SCS to the pod DDI to get AREA(SCENE) track first, the pod can be ground stablized while I can move the pod around. But during the recording of the track I messed around a bit and was able to get the pod ground stablized after a TDC depress as you can see in the track, so I am pretty sure it's a bug.

Hornet ATFLIR bug.trk

Edited June 24, 2024 by SexyTomato

[Czar66]

1 hour ago, SexyTomato said:

If I want to move the targeting pod after a NAV designation, I need to TDC depress first.

This is half correct. You can press TDC but after the slew, you'll be in INR mode, afaik. I'm not sure about this mode as the symbology differs from the manual and it should be only while slewing, besides I never get the cross to appear when slewing the pod.

If you press again the SCS switch to the DDI direction you used to SOI the pod, you'll cycle directly into the SCENE mode where it is always ground stabilized and unlocked for slewing. TDC after only for designating the new TGT.

1 hour ago, SexyTomato said:

However, after that the pod isn't ground stablized in INR track as you can see in the track. If I SCS to the pod DDI to get AREA(SCENE) track first, the pod can be ground stablized while I can move the pod around. But during the recording of the track I messed around a bit and was able to get the pod ground stablized after a TDC depress as you can see in the track, so I am pretty sure it's a bug.

Hornet ATFLIR bug.trk 2.09 MB · 2 downloads

 

Page 228 of the manual:

"Tracking Modes
The ATFLIR is in one of the following tracking modes at any time:

• INR. This mode is active when the pod is being slewed. It maintains pod orientation relative to the
aircraft by using inertial rate data from the aircraft."

INR is relative to the aircraft stabilized by its INS. So it will naturally drift over the ground.

To avoid this behavior completely on your workflow, press scs once again to the DDI position as you do to select it in order to jump to the SCENE mode. From there you can slew the ATFLIR as you wish. No TDC needed.

I don't know if the behavior is a bug as the INR symbology differs from the manual. I don't get that cross at all. I don't use INR at all so, how I manage the pod is unaffected. I'd wait for someone who knows that functionality to chime in.

Edited June 24, 2024 by Czar66

[SexyTomato]

9 hours ago, Czar66 said:

This is half correct. You can press TDC but after the slew, you'll be in INR mode, afaik. I'm not sure about this mode as the symbology differs from the manual and it should be only while slewing, besides I never get the cross to appear when slewing the pod.

Just press the Undesignate/NWS to undesignate the target, then you will get the cross and the pod isn't slaved to anything.

 

9 hours ago, Czar66 said:

Page 228 of the manual:

"Tracking Modes
The ATFLIR is in one of the following tracking modes at any time:

• INR. This mode is active when the pod is being slewed. It maintains pod orientation relative to the
aircraft by using inertial rate data from the aircraft."

INR is relative to the aircraft stabilized by its INS. So it will naturally drift over the ground.

Yeah it should refer to "Designation" mode in the manual, where it is repersented by the diamond symbol. So it should be ground stablized or slaved to the coordinate. Strangely the "INR" symbol appear after slewing the pod in this mode and it's also ground stablized.

In fact in page 275 the F16 manual, "INR (inertial rates). In INR mode, the TGP maintains its LOS on a position using only inertial integration. It does not do any image processing. INR track mode is effective at approximately maintaining the TGP LOS when the target is at risk of being masked or obscured." And in page 227 of the F18 manual, "Tracking Mode. Indicates the current target tracking mode. See Tracking Modes, below. Pressing the SCS in the direction of the FLIR format cycles between designation, SCENE, and AUTO tracking modes. Pressing the Undesignate button activates INR tracking mode." So I think the manual of F18 needs to clarify a bit more for this mode.

Moreover, if you do a Radar Designation or a HUD Designation, you can still slew the pod in "Designation" mode without TDC depress. And the pod is still gound stablized afterward. And as I mentioned, I somehow managed to get the pod gound stablized after a NAV designation with a TDC depress and slewing the pod, which is in the end of the track. So I think it is definitely a bug.

When this bug happens, you can notice the coordinate on the pod keeps changing, which is unresonable to show the coordinate I think if the pod isn't meant to be gound stablized.

 

10 hours ago, Czar66 said:

To avoid this behavior completely on your workflow, press scs once again to the DDI position as you do to select it in order to jump to the SCENE mode. From there you can slew the ATFLIR as you wish. No TDC needed.

Yeah for the time being this is the only thing I can do.

[Muchocracker]

 

7 hours ago, SexyTomato said:

Yeah it should refer to "Designation" mode in the manual, where it is repersented by the diamond symbol. So it should be ground stablized or slaved to the coordinate. Strangely the "INR" symbol appear after slewing the pod in this mode and it's also ground stablized.

Designation is not a "mode". It does what the name implies. It creates a designation along the line of sight of the TGP or the cursor for the HUD/Radar. It does not auto slave to the LOS of the pod as you move it, and that's how it should be. That is a required mechanization for ripple dropping jdam's in TOO delivery. 

Edited June 25, 2024 by Muchocracker

[SexyTomato]

9 hours ago, Muchocracker said:

 

Designation is not a "mode". It does what the name implies. It creates a designation along the line of sight of the TGP or the cursor for the HUD/Radar. It does not auto slave to the LOS of the pod as you move it, and that's how it should be. That is a required mechanization for ripple dropping jdam's in TOO delivery. 

 

It seems like you are focusing on the "Designation" mode, while I am talking about the behaviour after slewing.

Again, the pod only drifts after TDC depress and slew with NAV designation. But with Radar and HUD designation, the pod will be slaved to the last slew LOS even without TDC depress prior to the slewing.

[Phantom711]

Am 25.6.2024 um 14:21 schrieb Muchocracker:

That is a required mechanization for ripple dropping jdam's in TOO delivery. 

Why would that be the case? You can ripple up to 4 JDAMs at separate targets (reasonably close to one another) just fine. There are lots of outdated YT vids out there…I only know ONE good one.