Manipulating Radar Elevation From the Pilot Seat

[Shahriar0]

Why is that if I jump to the WSO seat and manipulate radar elevation, everything works as expected but as soon as I return to the pilot seat, the radar elevation returns back to center? Why doesn't it keep the antenna where it was left?  When I try to manipulate radar elevation from the front cockpit (thanks to the temporary WSO commands brought forward), the antenna resists moving! I can see they slightly move in the direction I am trying to tilt the antenna but they quickly return back to center. Obviously, I am missing something here. Beside using Jester Wheel what should I do to manipulate radar elevation directly by the pilot?

Thanks!

[SgtPappy]

4 hours ago, Shahriar0 said:

Why is that if I jump to the WSO seat and manipulate radar elevation, everything works as expected but as soon as I return to the pilot seat, the radar elevation returns back to center? Why doesn't it keep the antenna where it was left?  When I try to manipulate radar elevation from the front cockpit (thanks to the temporary WSO commands brought forward), the antenna resists moving! I can see they slightly move in the direction I am trying to tilt the antenna but they quickly return back to center. Obviously, I am missing something here. Beside using Jester Wheel what should I do to manipulate radar elevation directly by the pilot?

Thanks!

This is because Jester will take your place once you hop back in the front seat. He is programmed to follow a certain workflow and so you can't really override certain things like antenna elevation, range, etc. but you can change the aspect knob since it doesn't affect his scan algorithm.

If you want to manipulate the radar yourself, you have to turn him off (there is a binding and it's also on the wheel - Jester > crew presence). Then you can hop in either cockpit and do what you wish. Of course, this means Jester is effectively asleep and won't call out bandits, do IFF or any of his automatic tasks until you turn him back on.

[Zabuzard]

Teaching Jester to work with you manipulating his cockpit simultaneously is extremely difficult and not really something we want to pursue.

In general, you are not supoosed to "play WSO from the frontseat". Instead, we want to rather give you commands mimicking what a human pilot would tell the WSO, such as "can you scan a bit higher? I think the bad guy is above us", which btw is already available in some form with the Jester Wheel Scan Elevation commands.

I suspect the "need" for more manual control will get less and less the more Jester learns and becomes smarter. Or once we add planned features like pointing the radar at your eyesight/mousecursor, as in "look here". And when Jester also learns to hear AWACS calls.

[Shahriar0]

Ok, intetesting. This explanation does make sense to some extent, but I am able to do other things related to Jester handling radar such as setting range. How is radar elevation different than that? I don't want to turn Jester off. He is valuable to me. All I want is to control radar without using the Wheel. As good as its implementation is, in VR, it breaks immersion when I bring it up. I rather use Hotas to command Jester to do something for me, if that makes sense.

Edit: I replied before reading Zabuzard's comment. I get his point. It is not HB's intention to work the way I like it to. Understood.

Edited August 5, 2024 by Shahriar0

[Dragon1-1]

If you want full immersion, use voice control. You can't fly without talking to the WSO. You'd have to make your own VA (or equivalent) profile, but there are bindings for many things already.

[Zabuzard]

Ok, intetesting. This explanation does make sense to some extent, but I am able to do other things related to Jester handling radar such as setting range. How is radar elevation different than that? I don't want to turn Jester off. He is valuable to me. All I want is to control radar without using the Wheel. As good as its implementation is, in VR, it breaks immersion when I bring it up. I rather use Hotas to command Jester to do something for me, if that makes sense.
Edit: I replied before reading Zabuzard's comment. I get his point. It is not HB's intention to work the way I like it to. Understood.

The technical explanation is that there is Jester code that lets him control and tune antenna elevation and cursor position 24/7 every couple of millisecond, so that it will be fast and accurate.

While other things, like the range knob, is only set on certain trigger points in Jesters logic, such as when he switches from standard scan to lock, or when he is following a target within autofocus range. And then assumed to not be changed anymore within that period - which is the moment you could mess with the controls (while Jester still assumes what he set is the active setting).

And other controls, like the Aspect knob, are only touched when he boots up the radar, and then assumed to be left like that. Which technically allows you to mess with it as-you-like, but can then of course throw off Jester completely if what he thinks is active differs from what is actually set. The aspect knob in particular will soon (next update) also be touched by Jester all the time, making direct manipulation of it not feasible as well - but therefore, Jester Wheel and Context commands will provide a way to perform no-lock shots (see the manual).

In general, Jesters code must be able to assume that his pit is under his control only and that any pilot requests come in through a controlled interface, such as the Jester Wheel/commands. Direct manipulations of his controls are technically possible (in particular for power users), but Jester assumes its not and doesnt support it.

[Shahriar0]

3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

If you want full immersion, use voice control. You can't fly without talking to the WSO. You'd have to make your own VA (or equivalent) profile, but there are bindings for many things already.

 

I agree and do use it regularly when flying.

 

2 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

The technical explanation is that there is Jester code that lets him control and tune antenna elevation and cursor position 24/7 every couple of millisecond, so that it will be fast and accurate.

While other things, like the range knob, is only set on certain trigger points in Jesters logic, such as when he switches from standard scan to lock, or when he is following a target within autofocus range. And then assumed to not be changed anymore within that period - which is the moment you could mess with the controls (while Jester still assumes what he set is the active setting).

And other controls, like the Aspect knob, are only touched when he boots up the radar, and then assumed to be left like that. Which technically allows you to mess with it as-you-like, but can then of course throw off Jester completely if what he thinks is active differs from what is actually set. The aspect knob in particular will soon (next update) also be touched by Jester all the time, making direct manipulation of it not feasible as well - but therefore, Jester Wheel and Context commands will provide a way to perform no-lock shots (see the manual).

In general, Jesters code must be able to assume that his pit is under his control only and that any pilot requests come in through a controlled interface, such as the Jester Wheel/commands. Direct manipulations of his controls are technically possible (in particular for power users), but Jester assumes its not and doesnt support it.


 

Many thanks for full explanation of the logic, and what is to come. Interestingly, I currently set the target aspect before engagement but it looks like Jester is going to handle that for me. Great!

Edited August 6, 2024 by Shahriar0