Poorman's TEDAC unit

[TopoSolitario]

I mainly play in VR, and even if you get nice controllers for everything, and get crazy mapping controls, in the end when you switch to TEDAC but you keep your hands in the collective and cyclic using the very same buttons... experience and inmersion goes sub-prime.
So, not willing to throw 1K€ in a custom TEDAC unit, I tryed to mimic it as close as possible with cheaper market solutions, having separate controllers for the TEDAC, and... this is my solution:

In VR it actually adds a new layer of inmersion as you move your hands to the TEDAC unit away from your regular controls (I'm still working on a proper 3D printed mount to keep it in position above the cyclic) and this con troller has a really nice and precise analog sticks for the cursor and the manual-tracking.

Good thing is that controller and bluetooth keyboard went as low as 52€ from aliexpress, and I got a perfect mapping for the actions I need in when controlling the TEDAC. To be able to use the triggers as buttons I'm using AntiMicroX (as Joystick Gremlin has problems with Bluetooth controllers).

I'm mapping in the keyboard the LEV and GAIN knobs, which are really important, and George controlls, really easy and quick to use. I'm amazed how good it is in VR as you can grab and feel the unit.

I'm leaving here my mapping (currently, still testing) that seems to do the job for me.

 

UPDATE: I've updated the bindings

 

 

Edited September 27, 2024 by TopoSolitario

[heloguy]

Very nice.  Wish I would have seen this before I threw down on a SCUF Envision Pro.  This is cheaper, and it would be awesome to have the level and gain knobs where I don't have to take my hand off the controller.

[TopoSolitario]

1 hour ago, heloguy said:

Very nice.  Wish I would have seen this before I threw down on a SCUF Envision Pro.  This is cheaper, and it would be awesome to have the level and gain knobs where I don't have to take my hand off the controller.

Thankyou! I searched for this particular model after seeing some adds about controllers somewhere on the web and making the connection between this one and the fact that I read in forums that people were using gamepads for the TEDAC.
My brain made some connections and I could foresee some very practical use of a phone/table holding controller with a two knob and some buttons BT keyboard in the middle.

Currently I use a 3 knob +15 button BT keyboard to control radio commands (instead of using mouse and click on the corner) with a second layer to be used on some Apache functions, and they work like a charm... cheaper than something like a VKB STECS and you don't need fancy colors and buttons if you are into VR, you just need something at hand to click and twist.

So having a macro keyboard in the middle of two controlers actually mimics pretty well a TEDAC if you're in VR, and man... it's only 52€!! With not much time or effort to configure it as every thing is pretty customer ready.
Only customization is the 3D printed mount, using something like AntiMicroX to be able to use the triggers (or even the left stick as buttons to make more use of it with modifiers) and just mapping time in DCS... but everything is pretty straightforward.

[Simonster83]

This looks really nice! Can you share details on the controllers and how did you attach them to the keyboard?

[TopoSolitario]

20 minutes ago, Simonster83 said:

This looks really nice! Can you share details on the controllers and how did you attach them to the keyboard?

I'll try to help a bit with that:

• Controller is a D9 gaming pad, it cost me about 35€ in Aliexpress but surely price and availability depends on your country.
  • This controller has a very nice feature as it can hold a phone or a table with a spring loaded mechanism in the middle, which makes it perfect for attaching any size of keyboard, or even a screen or a device showing a screen (if you are not playing VR and want to have the TADS in there, not my case).
  • Another good thing is that it is bluetooth or cable, if you go for cable it emulates Playstation controller and you don't have to worry about mapping the triggers. Via bluetooth it works like a XBOX controller and triggers are AXIS not BUTTONS.
  • After a couple of hours playing, the controller is good stuff, sticks are sensitive and precise, working with the Linear tracking works amazingly well (you can add a little curve to have better fine adjustment)
  • I'm using the left trigger for "Left Control" modifier, which doubles the buttons, and the right trigger as 2nd detent Laser (mapped to L key on keyboard") To map this two axis to buttons I'm using ANTIMICROX, which is pretty easy to configure for this purpose, and works with Bluetooth controllers. Joystick Gremlin doesn't work properly, interprets the two triggers as a single axis and you need to keep screen in focus or otherwise it stops sending data to vjoy. AntiMicroX doesn't need other software like Vjoy.
• Keypad is a bluetooth macro keyboard, this one cost me about 20€ in Aliexpress
  • I searched for a Black one (others I use are transparent acrilic) and I wanted it to have only 2 knobs to mimic Gain and Lev adjustment... which are a must operating the TEDAC
  • Number of buttons are not important, this one have 12, whic I mapped 6 to control George, 3 for the top buttons and the other 3 to add functions like TV-Flir change. But all in all I find it to have enough buttons leaving aside only some minor functions.
• For mounting to the table I'm using a custom 3D printed attachment, I tested a first version yesterday but it was too far away and I put my face into the TADS monitor, so I'm printing this one right now which will be on top of the Gunfighter stick, perfect to grab at any moment and usable when in pilot position to control George and other secondary buttons (like Night vision adjustment)

 

After a about 4 of hours getting the hand of it, having a separate controller for the TEDAC is a must have for any pilot. A custom TEDAC unit is too expensive (and too specific for the apache), so a cheap solution than can still have great usage is mandatory, and I really think this combination does the trick with A+ results.

Edited September 25, 2024 by TopoSolitario

[TopoSolitario]

So, this is my desktop setup with the TEDAC QUEEN (not the king, but a nice poorman solution). I Can't afford the space needed for a simpit, I need everything to be removable and ready for storage in one minute... In VR yo uactually don't see how simple is everything, but in fact, with the new TEDAC, the Gunfighter IV, pedals, additional macro keyboard (for radio and kneepad) and still using the old X56 Thrust... well I can play VR with full inmersion! 

 

[whiteladder]

Great Idea!!  I especially like the expanding controller.  I wonder if you could them with a tablet and then use Helios to export the tedac display to the tablet?

[TopoSolitario]

I'm using it for VR, but you can surely add an screen for TEDAC using Helios, there are how-to's in youtube. I think it depends on the Tablet you're using, if it is capable of be used as additional PC monitor... if so, I'm pretty sure it's doable (never tried tho!)

Using a bluetooth keyboard is mainly to have the LEV GAIN knobs, I move them a lot!

[whiteladder]

Yeah I have a couple of Stream deck devices that I have the Knobs mapped to lots of rotarys( radio channels, volumes, level etc), the rotary is clickable so you can stack as many functions as you want and you can swipe the screen at the bottom to switch pages, the number of confguration is literally infinite.  I`m definetly getting the controller to attach to the stream deck.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by whiteladder

[TopoSolitario]

2 hours ago, whiteladder said:

Yeah I have a couple of Stream deck devices that I have the Knobs mapped to lots of rotarys( radio channels, volumes, level etc), the rotary is clickable so you can stack as many functions as you want and you can swipe the screen at the bottom to switch pages, the number of confguration is literally infinite.  I`m definetly getting to controller to attach to the stream deck.

Having many more buttons and knobs between the left and right handgrips is really usefull. I see you're using an X56, I ditched the stick in favor of a much more expensive VKG Gunfighter, but I used the X56 successfully with the UH1 using this mod: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6660045 You get a dead stick (not exactly how a helicopter cyclic works, but much better than using the X56 as is, even with the softest spring)... forgetting about trimming is a paradise (lost) 

 

 

[Simonster83]

I already made an order for a gaming pad and macro keyboard! Just need to think if I should attach the controller somehow between my MPD's or not . Now the spacing between MPD's is good for the pilot seat where I usually spend more time. Maybe I'll just hold the controller when jumping in the front seat.

I'm also only flying in VR, so I've been trying to get all controls as close as possible matching the view inside my headset.

[TopoSolitario]

12 hours ago, Simonster83 said:

I already made an order for a gaming pad and macro keyboard! Just need to think if I should attach the controller somehow between my MPD's or not . Now the spacing between MPD's is good for the pilot seat where I usually spend more time. Maybe I'll just hold the controller when jumping in the front seat.

I'm also only flying in VR, so I've been trying to get all controls as close as possible matching the view inside my headset.

Oh! you got big bucks invested there!  

I think you can add an attachment between the MFDs, the best position for me for the TEDAC QUEEN is over the stick at the same depth (that should be about 15cm away from your table). Not 100% accurate but the feeling in VR is much more inmersive than just grabbing it on your legs or something.

If you went for the exact same controller and keyboard as mine, I can upload the STL for the attachment I'm using.

[TopoSolitario]

As I'm using VR, I created some custom caps to have a better haptic feedback when "searching" for the right button.

• Grey ones mimic some buttons of the TEDAC unit
  • on top the TAD/FCR/PNV
  • on the right, top ones are for TV/FLIR
  • Bottom one is the IAT (can't push it into the left controller, too much needed buttons there)
• Black ones are dedicated to George
  • Four arrows with small protuberances to locate quickly each one
  • top left for show/hide George interface
  • top right for take and release flying controls

That way my fingers in VR has something to "remember", and it works like a charm!

 

[Simonster83]

Ok, got my bluetooth keyboard and controller but do I have to install some programs to Windows and/or DCS to get these to show as a DCS controllers?

Edit: I think I got them working and found a software to program the keyboard. It doesn't show in DCS as a separate device, but I don't think thats a big issue.

Some of buttons on the controller did not work, need to investigate what seems to be the problem.

Edited October 10, 2024 by Simonster83

[Simonster83]

I did some bindings and decided to use both shoulder buttons as modifiers. This way I could add eg. FCR scan size and some other functions. Triggers are for lasing and firing, I also installed Antimicrox, it seemed to work well.

@TopoSolitario are you using some kind of Bluetooth dongle on your pc and how are is the controller and keyboard working? Do you have any latency/delay? So far I've only tested with cables connected.

[TopoSolitario]

2 hours ago, Simonster83 said:

I did some bindings and decided to use both shoulder buttons as modifiers. This way I could add eg. FCR scan size and some other functions. Triggers are for lasing and firing, I also installed Antimicrox, it seemed to work well.

@TopoSolitario are you using some kind of Bluetooth dongle on your pc and how are is the controller and keyboard working? Do you have any latency/delay? So far I've only tested with cables connected.

I'm using Antimicrox too... after some testing this is THE ONE. It is easy to configure and works for what I need, that is, being able to use the triggers as buttons.
My motherboard has integrated bluetooth and wifi, so I'm using it (both for the macro keyboards and controller and wifi for airlink on Oculus Quest). I find no latency using it as it's intended for gaming. Depending on the dongle you're using for BT you can find some latency (that's pretty bad for the ManTrack), if you find latency it's the dongle not the gaming controller.

I have to give  a second thought for the mappings as I've some functions I need and don't have. But it already is closte to IRL buttons and hats locations and if I need additional stuff I can map other buttons in the center macro keyboard. I use the macro for TV/FLIR, IAT and George without modifers.
As I'm on VR I find pretty useful to add some haptic feedback on the buttons, just attaching some adhesive foam to properly find important buttons like the ones I use for Slave, Polarity and FCR Short Scan

Apart from that, I find this solution not only "cheap" but great for this purpose, it may not be a complete TEDAC true to live, but... 50€! 
Transition between pilot and gunner is much easier as you have different controls with different functions and different muscle memories. When I only pilot (FCR and L hellfires, rockets and gun, without using TADS) I don't use it... if not, switching to the CPG position feels pretty natural, and if I have to take control when George insist on crashing (happens a lot if overloaded) I even don't have to abandon the CPG spot, just change controls, grab the stick and keep flying.

How is your experience going with it?

 

[Simonster83]

I have not flown anything yet, need to try it this evening. But I played with the controls on the ground at it feels quite good. Analog sticks were quite good, not sure if I even need any curves for the axis.

This way I can leave all the functions in collective and cyclic the same as they are in pilot seat and fly also from cpg seat easily. There are quite many duplicated functions on TEDAC and the collective, but I'll try to get at least the most used functions in this new controller so I don't need take my hands away from it to grab the collective unless really necessary.

As for the bluetooth connection, I realized that I had a really good wifi/bt in my motherboard, just needed to attach the small antenna to make it work...

Edited October 11, 2024 by Simonster83

[fabio.dangelo]

I use a JoyPad PowerA FUSION Pro 2

Configured so that the two upper back sticks and the two dorsal buttons are modifiers

Left dorsal Red and orange back stick Right dorsal blue and light blue back stick.

The two bottom sticks (in the diagram shown on the dorsals) are the buttons provided in the back of the TEDAC.

For the triggers, I used JoyToKey to implement the two-stage triggers.

In the end I mapped ALL Tedac's functions!!!

So:

For IAT/OFS and Store/Update I use the Back and Share buttons.

For Laser Track Mode and Image Auto Tracker, all three middle buttons ("Back" "Share" and "Start" in the order given)

I am doing very well in VR

 

Edited December 24, 2024 by fabio.dangelo

[Esorciccio]

Poor man tedac works perfectly

Inviato dal mio M2007J20CG utilizzando Tapatalk