The Ikea pit (sort of)

[Peter_Pilot]

Talisman,

 

I believe we may have met briefly at the Helicopter Museum earlier this year, I hope they hold that event again next year, I enjoyed it and it isn't too far from where I live. I remember you told me about a bit of software you use with the BU0386 cards but I can't remember what it was?

 

I have been building a Hall sensor based cyclic stick (see mycockpit.org generic photo gallery) and plan to make a start on a collective stick soon.

 

Good luck with your pit, it is coming along nicely.

 

Peter.

[talisman]

Hello there peter, yes the event will be going on next year - the site is http://www.fscweston.co.uk (admins feel free to remove this link if its against rules) And i will have my KA-50 there this year.

 

I do remember you peter and we had quite a long (but rushed) chat and for that im sorry. The software i used was svmapper. Please feel free to PM me if you need help with anything. Ill have a look at your cyclic as well.

[talisman]

collective

 

Hello there, after a few requests here is a little write up about my collective and panel.

 

I have dyslexia so please accept any spelling mistakes as I cant see them to correct them.

 

Below is how the collective looks in the cold light of day.

 

I decided to take it into the workshop and take it apart for you good people to see. Now bear in mind this is not the same as mine – I have added to mine a lot, but this is the basic collective I started with.

 

First things first is cracking open the shell.

As you can see in the photo above there is not a lot of room inside the box, everything has its place.

 

Starting from the back.

 

The rear hinge.

I wanted the whole thing to be a robust as possible – these had to be sold and last for years – it seems now that 2 years later I have probably over engineered them slightly :D

 

The collective is a hollow chrome tube approx 36” long. It is held in place by a hinge plate made from 2mm steel. A 6mm bolt with a square head is used to hold the whole thing together.

 

Below shows the plastic tubing section which is flattened out on both sides to provide a friction surface. As the friction knob on the side of the hinge is tightened, both sides of the hinge clamp together to hold the collective in place.

 

Below shows how the bolt is connected.

 

The bolt is threaded through the tube and the hinge. On the top of the bolt is a square section which slots into a similar square hole on the side of the hinge, this prevents the head of the bolt turning as you tighten the friction knob.

 

Collective slide pots.

 

The collective is connected to a slide pot which detects the up and down movement of the collective.

 

The slide pot close up. Note the solder – this stops the splines on the pot from opening.

 

The wire connection from the collective tube.

 

This method works very well, its strong enough to move freely without deflecting the wire, but soft enough to handle quick movements without over stressing the potentiometer.

[talisman]

Continued in second post.

 

The main collective box.

 

The main collective box is made from (of all things) plastic guttering. Its heated slowly for 20 mins over a warm flame, then bent and formed over a jig to the exact dimensions of the 206 collective box. A backing piece is added and then slotted over the collective tube. The top and bottom of the box is made from 3mm plexy glass which is sanded to the exact shape and then fixed with 501 putty. The whole thing is them painted black.

 

This box is slightly different to mine, I replaced the centre push button with an analogue thumb joy for targeting.

 

Under the cover shows how the twist throttle is connected.

The wiring for the switches and the pots is run down the inside of the collective tube.

 

This shows a little clearer how the pot is connected.

 

The collar is butted up at the other end of the throttle section to a retaining ring, this stops it from all slipping backwards.

 

This shows the kind of pots used in the throttle. The long stem passes through the tube and into the shaft of the collective. The black screw shown under the shaft below is screwed into the shaft of the pot. Thus, when the collar of the throttle is rotated the pot underneath is turned.

 

This shows it a little better.

As you can see, there is a groove cut into the collective shaft (silver) the collar slides over the shaft until the hole for the screw lines up. (blue) The Pot shaft sits in the exact center of both the collar and the shaft and a screw is threaded into it.

 

 

 

This shows the example collective – and the actual material I use for the main collective.

 

Panels

 

The panels are made from MDF (8mm) but to make them a little more pleasing to look at and easier to make precise cuts with – I used plexy glass. The MDF has larger holes cut and the plexy has more precise cuts. The whole thing is then painted black.

 

 

The same thing from below.

 

Below shows the (quick) wiring if the bu0836 board of Leo’s.

 

This is mine – as you can see the only difference is the project box which is connected to the collective by a piece of sheet steel. The extra buttons are connected to the BU0836 board by using a matrix to extend its capabilities.

 

I hope this is a little more informative for everyone and helps, mu fingers hurt now.

 

Byee for now.

 

Jamie

Edited October 2, 2009 by talisman

[londo-cat]

I like how you use the friction bolt to control the movement of the collector. My next project on my pit is putting in the collector, and was throwing around a few ideas in my head until I saw your collector.

 

In the simulator, it uses a clutch/brake to allow movement, you squeeze the clutch/brake and then move the collector handle to the desired location.

 

My thoughts are to use some kind of friction system along the same lines as yours. Thanks for posting pictures of your collector and it's design! It has really helped me visualize how I want to build my own collector, but seeing how efficient and easy yours is really gets my creative thoughts flowing! :thumbup:

 

[talisman]

remember mine is really over engineered, you could do exactly the same thing with wood, and it would probably be more effective.

 

Just an idea.

[londo-cat]

remember mine is really over engineered, you could do exactly the same thing with wood, and it would probably be more effective.

 

Just an idea.

 

Don't get me wrong Talisman - you are a hellava pit maker! I like the quadrant you've come up with, very inventive and puts a lot of common sense into making things work for a pit.

 

My problem is I want to be as close to the simulated version of the game cockpit, which is always a problem between the real version and the virtual version. Lots of headaches too!

 

I've seen people make the pits out of aluminum, sheet metal, plastic and of course wood. I've always made them out of wood because I lack the metal working skills and tools to make it out of that.

 

Wood is also more forgiving when you overcut something. :smilewink:

 

Bad thing is that they can tend to burn down sometimes! :mad:

[Rockeyes]

Thank you for taking the time to explain it all. I now can not wait to get back home and start building again, now you have inspired me to do so.:thumbup:.

[Teknetinium]

Nice set up?

[talisman]

 

Wood is also more forgiving when you overcut something. :smilewink:

 

Bad thing is that they can tend to burn down sometimes! :mad:

 

I have almost had this experience - i connected and old potentiometer backwards. I couldnt believe how hot it got. It took weeks for the smell of scorched wood to go away.

[londo-cat]

I have almost had this experience - i connected and old potentiometer backwards. I couldnt believe how hot it got. It took weeks for the smell of scorched wood to go away.

 

Yeah - I finally started putting a thin layer of aluminum under my boards after I literally caught my F-16 pit on fire! I was able to knock out the burned piece of wood and replaced it but it taught me the valuable lesson of putting either an old PC case or aluminum backing under each board! :thumbup:

 

I'd love to have some CNC skills or a CNC like some of the lucky members on here, but I have to settle for woodworking skills. :smilewink:

[talisman]

But where i ask you is the fun in that? I dont want a CNC, i like making stuff by hand, i like the idea that everything i have made i have done it myself.

 

My biggest objective is not to be able to say "look i have a full size replica of a KA-50 arent i lucky. My objective is to be able to take my pit to displays and say "look, its just as functional as that £5000 sim over there but mine cost £500."

[Peter_Pilot]

Changing the subject slightly, Talisman, I have been following Oakes' excellent help to get my iocards connected to BS using SIOC and have managed to make a switch work which is really satisfying. I still have in mind the svmapper program that you use with your BU0836 USB card and was wondering why you need svmapper, is it not possible to configure joystick buttons to the required function within the joystick settings in BS? What is the advantage for you in mapping joystick buttons to keyboard presses?

 

Pardon me for being a bit slow.

 

Peter.

[talisman]

in short - toggle switches.

 

Take gear for instance - with a toggle mapped to the sim - then the switch is flipped the signal will be sent once. then when its flipped again, nothing will happen. Or if repeat key is on - the when flipped the gear will go up and down all the time by itself.

 

So I use svmapper, this allows me to use 2 functions - one for when the toggle is flipped to on (gear down) and again when its flipped off. gear up.

 

so - button one - toggle - when activated (press G) when deactivated (press G).

 

simples.

 

If your using press buttons - you dont need svmapper, if your using toggles - its a god send.

 

Its also good for bu0836 boards that all have the same name, its a night mare finding all of the buttons on each board in the game when they are all called bu0836. Svmapper allows you to watch each button and add an input, you dont need to know which board is which.

 

hope this helps. and sorry for the late reply.

[londo-cat]

in short - toggle switches.

 

Take gear for instance - with a toggle mapped to the sim - then the switch is flipped the signal will be sent once. then when its flipped again, nothing will happen.

 

Hey there Talisman - well not entirely true, at least not for me. I use an On-On SPDT (Single Throw Double Pole) toggle switch. Each way is mapped either [up] for gear up, and [down] for gear down.

 

So On-On toggle switches can actually perform *two* mapped functions.

 

If you get an On-Off toggle switch, then yes - it has that limitation.

 

I buy pretty much every toggle switch as a SPDT never as a SPST.

[Peter_Pilot]

Thanks guys, Talisman & londo-cat. I can see I shall have to get svmapper running with my BU0836X, it will be useful when I populate my cyclic and collective with switches.

[talisman]

Hey there Talisman - well not entirely true, at least not for me. I use an On-On SPDT (Single Throw Double Pole) toggle switch. Each way is mapped either [up] for gear up, and [down] for gear down.

 

So On-On toggle switches can actually perform *two* mapped functions.

 

If you get an On-Off toggle switch, then yes - it has that limitation.

 

I buy pretty much every toggle switch as a SPDT never as a SPST.

 

this is a good idea but i think it can be a little bit of a hog for resources. This means that each switch has to be connected to 2 switch functions on your boards. So essentually you half your switch matrix. By using svmapper, you can use SPST toggles and assign 2 functions to each, thus giving you the same thing but doubling your swith matrix.

 

However i can see one advantage to your setup. With mine, i have to reset swithes on the ground and if they are out of sync they do bizarre things. IE if my gear switch is up, and i start on the ground, by putting the gear toggle into the down position - my gear will rise. I assume your setup jumply ignores it if that condition is already set.

 

I do use DPDT toggles, but use the other pole to light status LED's.

[londo-cat]

this is a good idea but i think it can be a little bit of a hog for resources. This means that each switch has to be connected to 2 switch functions on your boards. So essentually you half your switch matrix. By using svmapper, you can use SPST toggles and assign 2 functions to each, thus giving you the same thing but doubling your swith matrix.

 

However i can see one advantage to your setup. With mine, i have to reset swithes on the ground and if they are out of sync they do bizarre things. IE if my gear switch is up, and i start on the ground, by putting the gear toggle into the down position - my gear will rise. I assume your setup jumply ignores it if that condition is already set.

 

I do use DPDT toggles, but use the other pole to light status LED's.

 

Yes - but I am using an EPIC USB board, so I have that capacity to allow for that.

 

When I crash and reset the sim the switches are matched in the sim on screen, so things can go funny if I don't set them to thier starting position.

 

I end up flipping switches prior to resetting the simulation. On my boards I have a small green dot on the starting position to show where they should be. This is how I speed up the process of re-setting the switches to thier correct starting position.

[talisman]

londo ..... that is a brilliant idea. i never would hve thought of that .

 

im off now to put dots on my panels.

[talisman]

A word about toggles.

 

For the duration of this project i have been using svmapper software, mostly because i used the older versions of leo's BU0836 boards which for some reason all show up in a weird way in vista.

 

This ment that every time i connected my wall panel and the cyclic - it would show as one big controller and not 2 individual controllers.

 

so svmapper was the only option as it shows each button individually.

 

BUT then i read BaD-CrC's post telling me about XPadder and since then my world has changed. This is a blinding piece of software. For £5.99 (uk) you get the ability to add as many inputs to the software as you wish. you can arrange the graphical user interface to show not only your buttons, but you can place them as they sit in your panels - making it much easier to find switches that are out of number order. But best of all, Macros can be added to buttons without needing to know any programming. you just press the buttons on the keyboard in the order they need pressing.

 

200 buttons - programmed in about an hour and a half. Howzat!

 

seriously - if your using bu0836 boards - you will get the best from them by using this software.

 

Another neat trick is the ability to assign key strokes to joystick axis. reverse thrusters, flaps, gears, even the rotor brake can all be assigned to axis. how cool is that? Something previously only given to us by the likes of FSUIPC and of course not available to BS flyers.

 

Did my first fully switched mission last night, no keyboard except to center my trackir. WooT.

 

Cheers CrC.

+1

[talisman]

Just a quick update,

 

I have been busy reciently. In fact i have been bitten so hard by the pit building bug, i now enjoy it more than flying.

 

Anyway - the whole point of this build is to see what a guy can do if....

 

1) money is tight

 

2) The wife is watching.

 

So i made a couple of purchases. Firstly was another monitor from ebay (£15) Its a 17 but thats ok.

 

I then bought a triple head 2 go, i bought one second hand and went for the analougue one - im using 17" standard monitors - ill never be able to afford 3 wide screen digital ones and i figure - hell if i can afford the screens ill be able to afford the TH2G upgrade as well. TH2G cost me £90 and as an interesting back story - was used by the BBC in an outside broadcast truck.

 

Been doing some fine tweaks - my lighting is now dimmable as are all of the panel lights and status indicators.

 

I have also added a new built in 15" monitor for BSVP this is just below the main monitors and is angled for the best view. It rus of a 12 volt supply embedded in my right panel.

 

 

This is my current view of the world of DCS. Who knows - perhaps one day ill even fly the bloody thing.

 

Below is the Pit with the lights on.

 

 

I have just had another BU0836 pop through the door yesterday, this will be the last. This will be for my lighting, the datalink panel and the Abris buttons, then its done!

 

New buttons coming after Xmas woo hoo.

 

I have been trying to join a squadron - but noone seems to be interested. The only ones i have found so far are flying FC and refuse admission if you dont fly planks.

 

Tell me what you think guys - am i the only one, or are others still trying to find a home to fly from.

 

Night night.

[Gadroc]

I have been busy reciently. In fact i have been bitten so hard by the pit building bug, i now enjoy it more than flying.

That would be very funny.... if I didn't have the same thing. I've spent way more time programming touch buddy, building controls and pit than I have flying. I'm hoping to have my current programing project ready for release in January so I can fly again :)

 

I have also added a new built in 15" monitor for BSVP this is just below the main monitors and is angled for the best view. It rus of a 12 volt supply embedded in my right panel.

 

 

 

Nice. I'm sure it makes a big difference while flying as well. Moving up to the big screen on mine was like night and day.

 

 

I have been trying to join a squadron - but noone seems to be interested. The only ones i have found so far are flying FC and refuse admission if you dont fly planks.

 

Tell me what you think guys - am i the only one, or are others still trying to find a home to fly from.

 

Night night.

 

I haven't tried yet. I'm a real newbie when it actually comes to aviation, and I've been spending most of my time building. I haven't even booted the multiplayer version (need to get my software setup with it though), but would be interested in trying. Send me PM if you want to try and hook up.

[C6_Hellfrog]

hi guys !

 

multiplayer IS the way to fly BS, because of limitations of eny IA and bad abilities form your IA wingmen in solo game.

 

in france we have many generic sim-aviation forums who recense links to sim squadrons : don't you have the same in USA ? "googling" for it ?

 

 

/ I don't think french users will fly with US speaking guys, no because of protectionism of sectarism, but because they speak french, and only a very basic "frenglish" in general... yes it's a pity... I know... but on the other hand, only few americans speak foreign langage... not better than froggies...

LOL

 

I'm already out, leave before being pushed out...

 

 

 

EDIT : @ Gadroc : if you need some mods on my help post about touchPAL, please send MP, because I will be on hollidays and will have a very few time to work on it and moreover will be less assidue on the web in next 2 weeks.

Edited December 19, 2009 by C6_Hellfrog
update

[talisman]

Just found this for £6,

 

I was thinking for the PVI-800, it wont have allof the functions, but it could be used for basic navagation and target selection. Ive never used all of the buttons on the 800 anyway.

 

 

I was thinlking of turning it on its side and changing the labels. So 1 - 4 and 7 would become 1 - 2 - 3 and 2 - 5 - 8 would become 4 - 5 and 6. That would leave 4 buttons on the side and one large "Target" button.

 

What do you think?

Edited December 20, 2009 by talisman

[CyBerkut]

Well... the obvious question comes to mind... Is it programmable? If not, what is your plan to make it a useable input for DCS:BS? [it looks like a fairly standard add-on number keypad, so I presume it would conflict with your main keyboard if you're thinking of just changing key designations in the DCS:BS options...)

 

I'm sitting here feeling like I'm missing something.