The sales blurb vs the reality.

[Panzerlang]

Confirming my decision to not touch the Super with a pole.
 

 

[EightyDuce]

Welp...been going back and forth with myself about the Crystal Light, now kinda glad I didn't pull the trigger yet.

Thankfully G2 still works, hopefully they get their act together or there is a competing headset.

[eFirehawk]

After my absolutely APPALLING experience with both the technical issues of the Crystal itself and the ridiculously terrible service of Pimax I'll pass...

[Blackhawk163]

I've only had my PCL since mid-September, but it's been great with no issues. The few times I needed customer support (to help out with user error) they've been prompt. Helpful on discord too. fingers crossed, I guess.

[Calvin.Pimax]

We've had a discussion with Mark regarding the issues he highlighted in his video. We're currently working on resolving these problems, not only in terms of hardware and software but also in areas like customer service, logistics, and more.

[Aapje]

It shouldn't require a youtube-video that goes out to 5k people before one gets good customer service. Too many tech-companies already provide much better service to people that can or do generate PR-damage to the company, rather than all of their customers, including those who don't make a scene.

[Panzerlang]

1 hour ago, Calvin.Pimax said:

We've had a discussion with Mark regarding the issues he highlighted in his video. We're currently working on resolving these problems, not only in terms of hardware and software but also in areas like customer service, logistics, and more.

You gave that much grief to somebody who actually has a bit of a voice, gawd knows what you do to some poor schmuck with zero clout. And you're promising now to make him whole only because of his aforementioned voice. And, incredibly, in this time of the camel's broken back, you appear to think that formulaic mush will carry any weight. Genuinely astonishing. At the risk of over-mixing my metaphors, it's as transparent as a window with no glass in it.

Give him a full refund and compo for his stress. And no, not a compo-credit towards his next Pimax purchase. Lol.

[Tweety777]

After reading the entire communication between Pimax and Mark I'm left wandering what is so bad about the way Pimax handles the issues. Yes, the first headset has been bricked by them, but rather then offering to fix the issue remotely they offer a replacement, where I believe it would be well possible to solve this issue through software. And then there is the replacement Crystal that doesn't work properly where they seem to forget the product is only months old rather then over a year. In Europe where I live warranty counts for when the actual product is actually received, even if this is a replacement under warranty, then the warranty date changes with the new product and also repairs come with a warranty on the repair itself. Besides this, in cases like this where solving the issue takes so long that the warranty period expires while looking for a solution then actually the warranty remains in effect because it was reported within the warranty period. 

When I look into this further I see no reason why there can't have been any honest mistake with regards to the warranty period on Pimax's side, because they simply didn't get the time to reply to Mark about this before Mark uploaded his video. Also, every message from Pimax ends with the note that the costumer can escalate the issue but nowhere do I see any steps in using that option. 

 

Just to be clear, in my opninion Pimax can learn from this costumer experience and things can be more costumer friendly (a happy costumer is better for business then a couple unhappy customers no matter what outcome), but I don't see a reason for the timing of this video. After having reminded Pimax of the actual warranty period of this product and the fact that the issues started within the warranty period and thus need to be solved according to being within the warranty period if Europian rules apply for Mark as well and Pimax not accepting these facts I can understand these issues. As it is right now I feel that the long delivery times for new headsets appear to be the most important reason for the frustration and this 1 reply from Pimax hitting a trigger. I can understand the frustration on Marks side and I feel that Pimax could've done more to take away  the frustrated feeling but I still feel this video i a rather sever escalation and not so much a justitfied attack towards Pimax. Not taking away from the fact that Pimax does need to learn from this situation.

 

I myself am considering upgrading from a Quest 2 to Crystal Light in the future so I'm quite curious about this situation because I cannot afford spending that amount of money on a product that causes as much issues as Mark discribes here. In my decision making proces to go buy myself a Crystal Light or search for an alternative will also be depended upon whether or not this story is, for my decision, negatively impacted but other rules regarding warranties in the USA, something I can work around by buying it localely rather then through Pimax themselves.

Edited November 23, 2024 by Tweety777

[maxTRX]

1 hour ago, Tweety777 said:

...negatively impacted but other rules regarding warranties in the USA, something I can work around by buying it locally...

Oh yes, the good old days of buying things locally, like when the original Oculus was released 'next door' (to me  ) and zuckerberg was busy with other stuff...

I think the situation will improve in the near future in my neighborhood provided some 'other' factors don't get in a way   

[Calvin.Pimax]

@Tweety777 

First, we want to express our sincere gratitude to Mark for his honesty and for bringing our shortcomings to light. We understand that the experience of receiving a highly anticipated VR headset, only to be met with poor customer service, can be extremely frustrating.

We’ve held internal meetings with our support team and higher management to address the issues raised by Mark. We’ve identified areas where we can improve and have developed a plan to rectify these mistakes.

We will also be reaching out to Mark personally to discuss our plans and to ensure that we take all necessary steps to prevent similar issues from occurring in the future.

[Panzerlang]

9 minutes ago, Calvin.Pimax said:

@Tweety777 

First, we want to express our sincere gratitude to Mark for his honesty and for bringing our shortcomings to light. We understand that the experience of receiving a highly anticipated VR headset, only to be met with poor customer service, can be extremely frustrating.

We’ve held internal meetings with our support team and higher management to address the issues raised by Mark. We’ve identified areas where we can improve and have developed a plan to rectify these mistakes.

We will also be reaching out to Mark personally to discuss our plans and to ensure that we take all necessary steps to prevent similar issues from occurring in the future.

More corporate waffle. Jaap posted a hand-wringing apology in the comments there, "not how we're supposed to be, internal communication error yada yada", only for some guy to comment how he was threatened in PMs on your Discord by Jaap because he advised somebody else to cut his losses and get a refund.

The general consensus now is that this behaviour is most certainly company policy and when we see a line like the one above, that absolutely REEKS of insincerity..."we want to express our sincere gratitude to Mark for his honesty" we know exactly how not-wrong we are. Lol. Gratitude? Say what? For getting angry enough to speak his mind in a video? Like he was doing you an intentional service? And "being honest"? Did you go on a corporate training jolly to learn how to produce sentences like that?

Why don't you go through all the comments under that video, identify the large number of other Pimax customers who are reporting how they've been screwed over too and make them whole as well? Or is the soothing grease only for the VERY squeaky wheels?

[Johnny Dioxin]

On 11/23/2024 at 3:12 AM, Blackhawk163 said:

I've only had my PCL since mid-September, but it's been great with no issues. The few times I needed customer support (to help out with user error) they've been prompt. Helpful on discord too. fingers crossed, I guess.

Same here. Lenses were iffy - like many others - replacements received within a month and it's now the only one of my headsets that I use - every day. I'm constantly amazed by how great everything looks in it. My only dislike - being picky - of the hardware is the heavy cable. If it's not in just the right place I really notice it's weight. Used together with Point Control it's easily the best flight simming experience I've had.

In fact, after being very on/off with DCS and other sims for the last few years, the Crystal Light has got me wanting to fly every day again.

Having said all that, their support could be better, especially with comms, and I think they exaggerate too much in their product descriptions. Most manufacturers or dealers do to some extent, but I think Pimax don't do themselves any favours with some of their claims - just feeds the fire. I think their enthusiasm also often gets the better of them. TBH though, if they hadn't released this headset I'd still be waiting for Deckard - if it ever shows up.

Edited November 25, 2024 by Johnny Dioxin

[EightyDuce]

4 hours ago, Calvin.Pimax said:

@Tweety777 

First, we want to express our sincere gratitude to Mark for his honesty and for bringing our shortcomings to light. We understand that the experience of receiving a highly anticipated VR headset, only to be met with poor customer service, can be extremely frustrating.

We’ve held internal meetings with our support team and higher management to address the issues raised by Mark. We’ve identified areas where we can improve and have developed a plan to rectify these mistakes.

We will also be reaching out to Mark personally to discuss our plans and to ensure that we take all necessary steps to prevent similar issues from occurring in the future.

Sincerely hope that there is truth in this and there is a positive change going forward, though actions will speak louder than words.

Sadly, in recent times many manufacturers and their warranty/customer service shenanigans were exposed by the likes of Gamers Nexus and others. Cases where the little guy gets screwed and there is a company acknowledgement only when the issue gets traction on social media and their dirty laundry gets aired out by someone with a following. Then the company issues a statement that speaks in generalities and "PR-speak" ("implementing plans and strategies")  without actually laying out what specific issues were identified and what changes are being made to ensure the issues do not repeat themselves. In the end, many of these changes never see the light of day and that fact only gets brought back to light when another issue gets aired out in public....Looking at you Asus. Not saying this is the case with Pimax, but many of the same complaints (some un-vetted) are beginning to surface and more substantive transparency on these issues from the "horses mouth" (Primax) would be most welcome.

At the end of the day we are all but one guy/gal and can only individually vote with out wallets; not looking to change anyone's mind. At this time I will hold off on my Pimax purchase until I am convinced that I won't get shafted should I need support after the company already has my $1000+ in their pocket. 

[Tweety777]

2 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

Sincerely hope that there is truth in this and there is a positive change going forward, though actions will speak louder than words.

Sadly, in recent times many manufacturers and their warranty/customer service shenanigans were exposed by the likes of Gamers Nexus and others. Cases where the little guy gets screwed and there is a company acknowledgement only when the issue gets traction on social media and their dirty laundry gets aired out by someone with a following. Then the company issues a statement that speaks in generalities and "PR-speak" ("implementing plans and strategies")  without actually laying out what specific issues were identified and what changes are being made to ensure the issues do not repeat themselves. In the end, many of these changes never see the light of day and that fact only gets brought back to light when another issue gets aired out in public....Looking at you Asus. Not saying this is the case with Pimax, but many of the same complaints (some un-vetted) are beginning to surface and more substantive transparency on these issues from the "horses mouth" (Primax) would be most welcome.

At the end of the day we are all but one guy/gal and can only individually vote with out wallets; not looking to change anyone's mind. At this time I will hold off on my Pimax purchase until I am convinced that I won't get shafted should I need support after the company already has my $1000+ in their pocket. 

I share your careful approach in this, even though I can use the beneift of EU rules in this regard.

 

I do think there is a big difference between the likes of Asus and Pimax which is why I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, Asus got well established, got greedy and fell for it, where as Pimax seems to be a new company which quickly appears big in a market which is still small but growing and quite possibly having had to cut corners in order to be able to offer a product compelling enough to be noticed next to popular products like the Quest series. I might well be wrong here, my only reason for even replying here is in the hope to find out what state Pimax is in because I quite frankly don't have a clue.

[Major_Mayhem]

Removed to start new thread on Pimax membership requirements.

Edited November 25, 2024 by Major_Mayhem

[Dangerzone]

12 hours ago, Johnny Dioxin said:

Same here. Lenses were iffy - like many others - replacements received within a month and it's now the only one of my headsets that I use - every day. I'm constantly amazed by how great everything looks in it. My only dislike - being picky - of the hardware is the heavy cable. If it's not in just the right place I really notice it's weight. Used together with Point Control it's easily the best flight simming experience I've had.

In fact, after being very on/off with DCS and other sims for the last few years, the Crystal Light has got me wanting to fly every day again.

Having said all that, their support could be better, especially with comms, and I think they exaggerate too much in their product descriptions. Most manufacturers or dealers do to some extent, but I think Pimax don't do themselves any favours with some of their claims - just feeds the fire. I think their enthusiasm also often gets the better of them. TBH though, if they hadn't released this headset I'd still be waiting for Deckard - if it ever shows up.

Almost same experience here. Received headset. Problems with lenses. (First, not connected/mounted correctly, and then one of them was distorted). Contacted Pimax via their help ticket, didn't get a response to start with. Contacted my local supplier who I purchased it off, and that gave it a push. Then Calvin here chimed in and said "Any issues - let me know", so I had external support apart from the ticketing which I was grateful for.

Since then, and after getting quadviews working, I've had a great experience. There's a few things in software like offline mode not being respected, but nothing that's breaking the system.

Current conclusions are:

1. Quality Control needs a complete overhaul. (Not just a tweak - something is drastically wrong there). It really is a lotto as to whether you have a smooth experience out of the box.
    
2. If you have issues, don't rely on their help support ticketing system. Submit the support, but be ready to follow it up on discord, in here, or somewhere else publicly. At present while unfortunate, it seems that often that can be what's needed to get the problem initially recognised. Just also grateful that there are public PR people who we can reach out to outside of their ticketing system like Calvin for this exact same reason. My experience with HP was a different story with no one to reach out to.
    
3. Beggers can't be choosers. While there's a lot of improvement that can be done, Pimax seems to be out on it's own when it comes to providing a HP Reverb 2 replacement/upgrade.
    
4. I don't trust the quality/build to currently last. I hope it does, but I recognise that Pimax only has 1 year warranty. (The fact that their 1 year extended warranty is 'out of stock' isn't too comforting either. ( https://pimax.com/products/pimax-crystal-1-year-extended-warranty )
   
   I was going to upgrade to the super. But I can't bring myself to invest that much money in a headset where the company hasn't proven themselves yet - especially when it could be a brick after 1 year and that's it. 

The video seemed well grounded and balanced. Gave what he went through. Didn't say 'never again', or 'don't buy' - but rather just to be aware of the issues that you could face and if so what to likely expect. 

As for the weight of the cable - I'm grateful for this. I'm hoping it speaks of quality. I do however have a little hook up high that the cable loops over, so that it's holding most of the weight and not my head.

I love my headset. Very grateful for it, and don't have any regrets - but I also acknowledge that experience varies more per individual than on other headsets.

Edited November 26, 2024 by Dangerzone

[Aapje]

9 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

The fact that their 1 year extended warranty is 'out of stock' isn't too comforting either. ( https://pimax.com/products/pimax-crystal-1-year-extended-warranty )

Wow, that is...interesting. It's not like a warranty can actually be out of stock, so this doesn't speak to a lot of confidence in the longevity of the product.

[Dangerzone]

10 minutes ago, Aapje said:

Wow, that is...interesting. It's not like a warranty can actually be out of stock, so this doesn't speak to a lot of confidence in the longevity of the product.

Agreed. @Calvin.Pimax - are you able to chase up with your contacts and find out why the extended warranty isn't available and showing as 'out of stock' please?

[EightyDuce]

33 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

Almost same experience here. Received headset. Problems with lenses. (First, not connected/mounted correctly, and then one of them was distorted). Contacted Pimax via their help ticket, didn't get a response to start with. Contacted my local supplier who I purchased it off, and that gave it a push. Then Calvin here chimed in and said "Any issues - let me know", so I had external support apart from the ticketing which I was grateful for.

Since then, and after getting quadviews working, I've had a great experience. There's a few things in software like offline mode not being respected, but nothing that's breaking the system.

Current conclusions are:

1. Quality Control needs a complete overhaul. (Not just a tweak - something is drastically wrong there). It really is a lotto as to whether you have a smooth experience out of the box.
    
2. If you have issues, don't rely on their help support ticketing system. Submit the support, but be ready to follow it up on discord, in here, or somewhere else publicly. At present while unfortunate, it seems that often that can be what's needed to get the problem initially recognised. Just also grateful that there are public PR people who we can reach out to outside of their ticketing system like Calvin for this exact same reason. My experience with HP was a different story with no one to reach out to.
    
3. Beggers can't be choosers. While there's a lot of improvement that can be done, Pimax seems to be out on it's own when it comes to providing a HP Reverb 2 replacement/upgrade.
    
4. I don't trust the quality/build to currently last. I hope it does, but I recognise that Pimax only has 1 year warranty. (The fact that their 1 year extended warranty is 'out of stock' isn't too comforting either. ( https://pimax.com/products/pimax-crystal-1-year-extended-warranty )
   
   I was going to upgrade to the super. But I can't bring myself to invest that much money in a headset where the company hasn't proven themselves yet - especially when it could be a brick after 1 year and that's it. 

The video seemed well grounded and balanced. Gave what he went through. Didn't say 'never again', or 'don't buy' - but rather just to be aware of the issues that you could face and if so what to likely expect. 

As for the weight of the cable - I'm grateful for this. I'm hoping it speaks of quality. I do however have a little hook up high that the cable loops over, so that it's holding most of the weight and not my head.

I love my headset. Very grateful for it, and don't have any regrets - but I also acknowledge that experience varies more per individual than on other headsets.

Build quality and quality control, coupled with warranty/support are my biggest concerns atm. I may be an "old man yelling at clouds", but to me, an $800+ consumer product should "feel" like a premium product; both through build quality, quality control and the manufacturers support of their product. And while many users will say they are happy with the product and the level of support they received, they could have just as easily been in the shoes of someone who had fight and claw their way to a resolution. To those folks, the only sample-size that matters is their own. 

So far I've seen enough to give me pause about buying into the Pimax ecosystem. We will see how things shake out when my G2 is no longer an option. On paper, Pimax looks to be a capable product. 

 

[Dangerzone]

20 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

Build quality and quality control, coupled with warranty/support are my biggest concerns atm. I may be an "old man yelling at clouds", but to me, an $800+ consumer product should "feel" like a premium product; both through build quality, quality control and the manufacturers support of their product. And while many users will say they are happy with the product and the level of support they received, they could have just as easily been in the shoes of someone who had fight and claw their way to a resolution. To those folks, the only sample-size that matters is their own. 

So far I've seen enough to give me pause about buying into the Pimax ecosystem. We will see how things shake out when my G2 is no longer an option. On paper, Pimax looks to be a capable product. 

 

I completely agree with you. If I spend that much money, I want to know that I'm going to get something reliable, that lasts too, but more importantly - a product that is backed up by the company.

And yes - different people can have different experiences. But to be fair, even though my initial experience was rough - they did come to the table. They provided replacement lenses quickly, and I have to give them credit for that. They also have multiple ways of contact for support outside of their ticketing system too, which deserves some credit. 

Since we live in a fallen world,, we're not going to have a 100% success rate, regardless of how good QC and builds are. That's where warranty and after sales support trumps even quality in my opinion. (Quality comes a close 2nd, but even with the best of the best, you can always luck out and be one of the few - and you want to know that you're going to be looked after and not dismissed in those instances). 

That's where video's like this one are far more superior than all the other reviews out there. I want to know the experience people have when things go wrong. Not so much what went wrong (although that's still of interest) - but how things were handled. A single video of "I had a problem, but company came through promptly and resolved the issue" is worth more than 100 "Great product - love it.  Wow! Look how cool this is" review video's, because it shows you how much the company really cares or not.

Edited November 26, 2024 by Dangerzone

[EightyDuce]

3 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

 

That's where video's like this one are far more superior than all the other reviews out there. I want to know the experience people have when things go wrong. Not so much what went wrong (although that's still of interest) - but how things were handled. A single video of "I had a problem, but company came through promptly and resolved the issue" is worth more than 100 "Great product - love it.  Wow! Look how cool this is" review video's, because it shows you how much the company really cares or not.

Couldn't agree more. 

[Panzerlang]

I'd like to believe that if their component quality (and QC thereof) was largely sound, their support would be too, on account of not being overwhelmed by more units being RMAd than kept.
But this seems to be where everything has broken down. Support is overwhelmed (probably at the financial level) and the response has been to resort to chicanery instead of transparency. Yes, we get it, transparency would cost sales too but so does chicanery and almost certainly MORE so. For those that stick with it, trust is everything. Lose that, lose the whole shebang.

[Dangerzone]

13 minutes ago, Panzerlang said:

I'd like to believe that if their component quality (and QC thereof) was largely sound, their support would be too, on account of not being overwhelmed by more units being RMAd than kept.

I can attest that quality in one part of a company doesn't mean that it's there in another part. I recently purchased another device (not related to Pimax), where the build quality is exceptional from what I can tell, but the companion software that it needs is seriously lacking. 

Sometimes the problem is from the top right through. Other times, it's just different departments with different cultures. 

[Calvin.Pimax]

11 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Almost same experience here. Received headset. Problems with lenses. (First, not connected/mounted correctly, and then one of them was distorted). Contacted Pimax via their help ticket, didn't get a response to start with. Contacted my local supplier who I purchased it off, and that gave it a push. Then Calvin here chimed in and said "Any issues - let me know", so I had external support apart from the ticketing which I was grateful for.

Since then, and after getting quadviews working, I've had a great experience. There's a few things in software like offline mode not being respected, but nothing that's breaking the system.

Current conclusions are:

1. Quality Control needs a complete overhaul. (Not just a tweak - something is drastically wrong there). It really is a lotto as to whether you have a smooth experience out of the box.
    
2. If you have issues, don't rely on their help support ticketing system. Submit the support, but be ready to follow it up on discord, in here, or somewhere else publicly. At present while unfortunate, it seems that often that can be what's needed to get the problem initially recognised. Just also grateful that there are public PR people who we can reach out to outside of their ticketing system like Calvin for this exact same reason. My experience with HP was a different story with no one to reach out to.
    
3. Beggers can't be choosers. While there's a lot of improvement that can be done, Pimax seems to be out on it's own when it comes to providing a HP Reverb 2 replacement/upgrade.
    
4. I don't trust the quality/build to currently last. I hope it does, but I recognise that Pimax only has 1 year warranty. (The fact that their 1 year extended warranty is 'out of stock' isn't too comforting either. ( https://pimax.com/products/pimax-crystal-1-year-extended-warranty )
   
   I was going to upgrade to the super. But I can't bring myself to invest that much money in a headset where the company hasn't proven themselves yet - especially when it could be a brick after 1 year and that's it. 

The video seemed well grounded and balanced. Gave what he went through. Didn't say 'never again', or 'don't buy' - but rather just to be aware of the issues that you could face and if so what to likely expect. 

As for the weight of the cable - I'm grateful for this. I'm hoping it speaks of quality. I do however have a little hook up high that the cable loops over, so that it's holding most of the weight and not my head.

I love my headset. Very grateful for it, and don't have any regrets - but I also acknowledge that experience varies more per individual than on other headsets.

1. We acknowledge that quality control has been a significant concern for our customers. We're actively working to address this issue, from sourcing high-quality materials to refining our manufacturing processes, optimizing factory conditions and more.

2. We recently held a meeting to discuss warranty policies and are currently working on a revised return, refund, and warranty policy. We anticipate sharing more details on this soon.

11 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Agreed. @Calvin.Pimax - are you able to chase up with your contacts and find out why the extended warranty isn't available and showing as 'out of stock' please?

I will discuss this topic with the team in our next meeting.

10 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

A single video of "I had a problem, but company came through promptly and resolved the issue" is worth more than 100 "Great product - love it.  Wow! Look how cool this is" review video's, because it shows you how much the company really cares or not.

That’s why I’m here to provide additional support to our user. While it might not be visible to others, I’ve done my best to assist, and I believe this contributes positively to our company’s reputation.

[Calvin.Pimax]

20 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

Sincerely hope that there is truth in this and there is a positive change going forward, though actions will speak louder than words.

Sadly, in recent times many manufacturers and their warranty/customer service shenanigans were exposed by the likes of Gamers Nexus and others. Cases where the little guy gets screwed and there is a company acknowledgement only when the issue gets traction on social media and their dirty laundry gets aired out by someone with a following. Then the company issues a statement that speaks in generalities and "PR-speak" ("implementing plans and strategies")  without actually laying out what specific issues were identified and what changes are being made to ensure the issues do not repeat themselves. In the end, many of these changes never see the light of day and that fact only gets brought back to light when another issue gets aired out in public....Looking at you Asus. Not saying this is the case with Pimax, but many of the same complaints (some un-vetted) are beginning to surface and more substantive transparency on these issues from the "horses mouth" (Primax) would be most welcome.

At the end of the day we are all but one guy/gal and can only individually vote with out wallets; not looking to change anyone's mind. At this time I will hold off on my Pimax purchase until I am convinced that I won't get shafted should I need support after the company already has my $1000+ in their pocket. 

While not everyone may recognize the efforts, we are taking concrete steps to address the issues raised. We are committed to improving our communication, customer service, and logistics to complement our excellent hardware.

Actions truly speak louder than words.

 

On 11/25/2024 at 7:21 PM, Panzerlang said:

Why don't you go through all the comments under that video, identify the large number of other Pimax customers who are reporting how they've been screwed over too and make them whole as well? Or is the soothing grease only for the VERY squeaky wheels?

Of course, we have a detailed spreadsheet categorizing all the issues raised in the video comments. This will help us prioritize and address these concerns.