Invisible objects

[Raisuli]

Probably a dumb question, but is there a way to make an object invisible?  Not just to AI, to players, too.

I've got this lovely map of Germany with all these beautifully detailed radar sites that don't have any radar built in, so I'm adding units, making them invulnerable, then setting up triggers so if the appropriate building is destroyed the radar unit is disabled.  This way you destroy the beautifully detailed building and not the unit, but the units are there uglying up the radar site. 

They can't be destroyed by bombing them anyway (which might need some tweaking...HARMs...), but I don't want to look at them when I fly over, either.

[Dangerzone]

51 minutes ago, Raisuli said:

Probably a dumb question, but is there a way to make an object invisible?  Not just to AI, to players, too.

I've got this lovely map of Germany with all these beautifully detailed radar sites that don't have any radar built in, so I'm adding units, making them invulnerable, then setting up triggers so if the appropriate building is destroyed the radar unit is disabled.  This way you destroy the beautifully detailed building and not the unit, but the units are there uglying up the radar site. 

They can't be destroyed by bombing them anyway (which might need some tweaking...HARMs...), but I don't want to look at them when I fly over, either.

Do you want to make them invisible, or remove them completely once the buildings are blown up? 

If the latter, you can despawn groups, so this could be an option for you.

You can use 

local myGroup = Group.getByName('sam1')
Group.destroy(myGroup)

add that as a script with a trigger, and it should do the job for you.

Reference for this function can be found at:

https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_func_destroy

 

 

Alternatively, if you're using the MOOSE FRAMEWORK in your mission you can also use group:Destroy() I believe to remove the units:

sam1 = GROUP:FindByName( "sam1" )
sam1:Destroy( true )

... but this second method will only work if you're using MOOSE in your mission.

More information on the MOOSE Group wrapper can be found at:

https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS/Documentation/Wrapper.Group.html

Edited April 22 by Dangerzone
Edited to fix coding quote to LUA type.

[Raisuli]

Just now, Dangerzone said:

Do you want to make them invisible, or remove them completely once the buildings are blown up? 

You can despawn groups, so this could be an option for you.

You can use 

https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_func_destroy

ie:

add that as a script with a trigger, and it should do the job for you.

If you're using the MOOSE framework in your mission you can also use group:Destroy() I believe to remove the units:

More information on the MOOSE Group wrapper can be found at:

https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS/Documentation/Wrapper.Group.html

I want to make them invisible before they are blown up. 

Building over here, radar over there.  Radar is invulnerable, but blow up the building and I don't need mist or moose; just a standard ME GROUP DEACTIVATE and it vanishes.  Exactly what I want, because the map building is supposed to be the radar, not the radar unit I had to put on the map after the fact.

Did that make any sense?  Let's do this; if I blow up the dome on the right, the search radar circled in yellow goes away, but until then I don't want to see the search radar over there.  The whole point of the nicely modeled radar sites is they're radar sites.  If we need to put units on them they might as well be bare spots on the tops of mountains.

 

 

 

[Dangerzone]

Aaah - I think I get what you're asking for. 

The static maps radar objects are only static (part of the map) - but you're effectively wanting them to be functional from a players perspective. But being static map objects they are not.

So - as a work around, you want to add the SAM site (that you're putting in) radar units to the map at the same (or very closely similar) location so that it emits radiation, and supports the rest of the equipment (aka SAM launchers) - but you don't want the groups radar to be visible because you want the player to see and expect that the static map object is the actual radar dome instead. 

That makes a lot of sense, and I actually like the idea of using map objects this way. 

However, unfortunately, no - I can't think of a way to do this natively to a single unit from the mission editor or scripting. 

As a guess - maybe you could possibly create a texture mod so that the SAM sites radar dish is effectively 'nothing'. But this would require anyone playing to have this mod. Might be a solution if you're doing SP stuff for yourself, but isn't ideal for multiplayer, or if you're wanting a solution. 

You can do the opposite - remove the static object map and replace with the active group radar in it's location - but as you've mentioned, your swapping the beautiful native scenery with a generic ('ugly' as you call it) replacement. 

The only other option I can think of is to move the 'ugly' radar to the other side of the hill/complex, and have a trigger so when the player destroys the static unit, it takes out the nearby radar. But that is an ugly workaround really. 

It's a pity there's no solution to this -because I can definitely see the appeal with using the static map objects like this instead! 

[Raisuli]

10 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

The only other option I can think of is to move the 'ugly' radar to the other side of the hill/complex, and have a trigger so when the player destroys the static unit, it takes out the nearby radar. But that is an ugly workaround really. 

It's a pity there's no solution to this -because I can definitely see the appeal with using the static map objects like this instead! 

Where the alternatives kind of fall apart for me, and I did a dry run yesterday, is more or less on top of the site, or using a TGP, you can see the actual unit and the natural inclination is to attack that and not the semi-random map building that was supposed to do the same job.

Plan B I guess.

Quote

That makes a lot of sense, and I actually like the idea of using map objects this way. 

Ugra did a phenomenal job on this; even gave us a building with the highbay doors open to fly through.  Seemed a shame for it to all be window dressing.  With the (new?) 'assign as' and trigger for map object destroyed that seemed like the perfect application.  All these lovely static map buildings suddenly become dynamic mission pieces rather than just assigned targets. 

Besides, if that 'building' is the radar it might take more than a HARM to harm it.  Buildings are generally a little tougher than that, so taking out the search radar becomes more challenging.

Obviously that's a thing anyway; assigned to destroy a map object, and trigger on success or use that target as a decoy and spawn the hidden AAA site...along with a bit of randomization, because that's how I got through my first campaign mission.  Enough iteration and you know where to look!

 

[Dangerzone]

10 hours ago, Raisuli said:

Where the alternatives kind of fall apart for me, and I did a dry run yesterday, is more or less on top of the site, or using a TGP, you can see the actual unit and the natural inclination is to attack that and not the semi-random map building that was supposed to do the same job.

Plan B I guess.

Ugra did a phenomenal job on this; even gave us a building with the highbay doors open to fly through.  Seemed a shame for it to all be window dressing.  With the (new?) 'assign as' and trigger for map object destroyed that seemed like the perfect application.  All these lovely static map buildings suddenly become dynamic mission pieces rather than just assigned targets. 

Besides, if that 'building' is the radar it might take more than a HARM to harm it.  Buildings are generally a little tougher than that, so taking out the search radar becomes more challenging.

Obviously that's a thing anyway; assigned to destroy a map object, and trigger on success or use that target as a decoy and spawn the hidden AAA site...along with a bit of randomization, because that's how I got through my first campaign mission.  Enough iteration and you know where to look!

 

I woke up this morning realizing my workaround won't work anyway. Because if a player attacks the radar using a HARM - it's going to track for the radiation emitter anyway - not to the building itself, so the idea of invisible and indestructible isn't going to work. 

Sadly, there seems to be no work around. ED would need to get involved, and do something, either like allowing a unit to be truly 'invisible' - plus placed onto (or in) a static object, or allowing a unit to be placed on the map, and then 'linked' to a static object for the static object to become the actual unit, or have an additional type that matches the look of these new radar buildings as a search radar. Either way - core changes I doubt we're going to see anytime soon sorry.

Don't let it get you down though. Work with what we have now. Urga hve done an incredible job - and definitely raised the bar yet again on EA maps. 

[Raisuli]

37 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

I woke up this morning realizing my workaround won't work anyway. Because if a player attacks the radar using a HARM - it's going to track for the radiation emitter anyway - not to the building itself, so the idea of invisible and indestructible isn't going to work.

Originally the 'real' radar was on top of the building for that very reason!  Looks...bad!    Has the same problem as trying to start aircraft in a shelter; all the techs end up on the roof!  

There's no way I'm going to let all that modeling go to waste, though, even if it just fouls up coordination communications.  Blow up the tower and Schabowski doesn't get fully briefed on the new regulations before the press conference...

 

I'm working on alternatives; all we have is what we have, it's not up to ED to cater to every wacky idea every player comes up with.

[Priest]

What you need is the radar unit you want to use modded into a tiny model like a flag pole or a simple antenna structure something you can stack on top of the static model. It doesn't need to be invisible, it just needs to blend in. You can already place units on top of map objects like if I want to have a JTAC assign a map object building as a target what I do is place a tiny unit from the red side's ground unit fortification list on top of the building. The TACAN beacon is good for this and there's better stuff in some of the asset packs like VAP. Blends right in it might as well be invisible especially if mix it in with some statics but I can create a JTAC task that assigns this tiny unit as a target to the player. The JTAC calls out the grid for the TACAN beacon, lases it whatever you want as though was a normal unit but from the player's perspective it's the building that's the target. The JTAC even calls out the target as a fortification.