Offensive strategies: Something is wrong.

[Waldo_II]

Although I am not an expert, I do know a fair share about offensive helicopter strategies, the outlines of what RL Apache/Cobra/Eurotiger/Mi-28 pilots due in order to engage enemy ground targets, or at least I think I do.

 

(And don't get me wrong, I absolutely love DCS. This isn't meant to be a criticism of the game, the programmers, etc. DCS is one of the finest pieces of software money can buy)

 

From what I understand, this is the order of processes that RL attack helicopter pilots follow.

1. Gather information from recce elements: UAV photos, forwards observer information, satellite photos, etc.

2. (optional) Fly extremely high and use computer-assisted optics (like the Skhval) to do their own reconnaissance.

3. Identify what targets are on the battlefield, determine what priority each one has in terms of needs-to-be-killed.

4. Engage targets using this method

4a. Set up behind a hill, arm weapons, prepare for rocket launch

4b. Increase lift, pop up from behind the hill, acquire pre-known target if recce information is reliable. If no pre-known targets, scan for targets, select one

4c. Fire rocket, if need be stay hovering

4d. Decrease lift after missile impact, hide behind cover.

I know that this is what should happen in the game, this is what I should be doing. The problem is that this doesn't work for me. Instead, this is what I do.

1. Use mission breifing to gather information

2. Fly up very high, very far away from target zone, middle of the sky where everything is nice and clear

3. Use Skhval to find targets and identify targets, get approximate range

4. Send wingmen off with the Recce command to ~1-2km away from targets

5. Pray that they don't get shot down

6. Stay high in the sky, be ~7-8km from targets, just barely within Vikhr range.

7. Send wingmen off against targets one-at-a-time with the "attack my target" command

8. Wingmen dive down to go low, travel until they are well within Vikhr range, fire, run away back to me

9. Repeat from 7 until wingmen are out of Vikhrs

10. Fire my own Vikhrs off from the far reaches of the effective range of the Vikhr missile, one at a time.

The problem with the proper technique is that if I pop up out from behind a hill, it takes me so long to find a target, point the helicopter to the target, shoot, wait for kill, then return back down that I might as well stay hovering above the mountain the entire time, in plain view. Then, since I am in plain view, I might as well be in the middle of the sky where I can see everything at once, you know what I mean? There is just too much to handle with the proper method; I have to get into a hover, raise altitude, re-aquire hover, start scanning with the narrow 7x FOV or with my eyes through the window (the problem is that with the 7x magnification, it can take a long time to find a target, let alone the one I am looking for. If I use my eyes, I can't see the section being blocked out by the Ka-50's body, and I don't have any magnification at all so determining the difference between a shrub and a MANPAD is all but impossible. If I zoom in to even 2x, the HMS is on the very corners of the screen, and I still have to adjust with my keyboard and lock after I use the HMS), slew the Skhval over to the target (which takes forever), angle the helicopter properly (takes forever to do), shoot it off, wait until it hits, then lower the collective and be careful not to vortex.

 

It is all too much for me to do efficiently. Hovering in the middle of the air makes me feel dirty, like I have invincibility hacks on. It is all too easy to take out targets because you are never close enough to them for them to kill you, and any idiot could see you hovering in the middle of the sky like that.

 

 

 

What I'm trying to get at here is this: Why am I so effective? Why are my poor strategies letting me win each mission without a single scratch? Why are bad strategies working when proper technique seems to be a waste of time? Inside of me I have two conflicting interests: One part wants to be fully immersed in the world, behaving like a real pilot, whearas the other part of me wants maximum combat efficiency, never to be in danger yet destroying all in my path all as quickly as possible.

 

 

 

 

I've done some thinking, and my only conclusion as to why poor strategy works is this: ground assets are too underpowered in this game. Just think: A CR2/M1A2 has enough computer power and weaponry to be able to hit a football at 8km away (a slight exaggeration), yet they don't shoot at me until I'm only 2km away. Even a M2 Bradley can engage up to 6km away. Both systems have the computer power to calculate trajectories to hit space ships moving at warp speed, yet if I fly perpendicular to either of these vehicles in the game they always miss by a long shot. The AI seems too slow, too unintelligent for a true-to-life simulation that I feel DCS is trying to create.

 

Of course, maybe I need to be tough more modern doctrines of offensive helicopter techniques. If anyone can link me to some good sources detailing attack helicopter doctrine, I would be glad to read it, and thanks. I know it will come up, I have been meaning to read Ed Macy's Apache, but as a student my summer reading is too much to accommodate for it.

 

Unfortunately I will be gone for a week or so after tomorrow, so I won't be able to respond quickly to any replies, but I will get back here first thing after I get back.

[wickedpenguin]

It is all too much for me to do efficiently. Hovering in the middle of the air makes me feel dirty, like I have invincibility hacks on. It is all too easy to take out targets because you are never close enough to them for them to kill you, and any idiot could see you hovering in the middle of the sky like that.

 

I will agree that it is possible to "game" the AI. For instance, in online multiplayer - or even in offline - when you attack a group of enemies they just sit there. In RL, if a column of vehicles were sitting around at a pit stop and two of their vehicles suddenly exploded, everybody would be hauling ass and scattering like ants for cover. In DCS:BS, it's like a shooting gallery. They'll fire back if you get close, but they sure as heck won't run away.

 

As far as handing all the controls, practice, practice, practice. It's a heavy but manageable workload.

 

I'm not sure what control setup you have, but find a system that works for you. I've got every major combat function mapped to my Saitek X45 HOTAS - and that's without TrackIR.

 

Let's say I'm entering the combat area and am scanning with the naked eye. I see something in the distance. With my right thumb, I spin Rotary #2 and zoom in slightly on the object. Ok, it's vehicular. I turn the helicopter with the cyclic in my right hand and the rudder rocker underneath my left middle finger. Thumb down on Hat Switch #2 drops the HMS in front of me. My left index finger pushes Hat Switch #3 to the right, turning on Moving Ground Vehicle targeting.

 

I'm now facing the target. Using my thumb Hat Switch #1, I slew my view -and HMS - over the target area. With my right index finger, I press a button that activates the Shkval and slews in the vicinity of the target. My left thumb now uses the mini joystick on the X45's throttle to slew the Shkval view. I see the target. It's a BMP. My right thumb first presses Hat Switch #2 to the right and selects the Vikhrs, then presses button #3 to lock the target.

 

In the meantime, I'm slowing the helicopter to a hover. I trim with my right thumb on button #8 on the throtttle. As the airspeed drops to zero, I engage with Auto Hover with my right pinky on the stick's Pinky Switch. Left index finger pushes Hat Switch #3 down, activating Auto-Turn on Target. The helicopter is hovering and stable, rotating to face the target. Tweak the cyclic and rudder slightly until the Vikhr circle covers the target. Right thumb presses button #2 on the stick and whoosh - missile away. Seconds later, boom.

 

It's all about finding a system, learning it, and practicing with it.

Edited August 8, 2009 by wickedpenguin

[Waldo_II]

I figured that part of it is my control scheme. Right now I'm using a combination of 6DOF Freetrack headtracking, a Logitech Wingman Attack 2 from the '90s, and a mouse+keyboard. I do plan on getting a Saitek x52 soon as I find myself enjoying the flight sim genre more and more.

 

My joystick has the following functions: Collective throttle, left rudder, right rudder (both bound to buttons), cannon fire, missile/bombs release, trim, and lock target. In order to move the Skhval, engage HMS, arm weapons, select weapons, etc. I have to move my hand over to the keyboard. If I need to adjust magnification, I have to reach over to the mouse. I am positive that the Saitek x52 will be able to accomodate for 90% of the controls I use, but I cannot imagine doing all of these things at once like you describe. Target spotting and identification will still be an issue, I can imagine. I really wish the Skhval had a 1x magnification level, it would make life so much easier.

 

I guess I'll have to wait until I can get said controller. Thank you very much for the response, though.

[wickedpenguin]

I figured that part of it is my control scheme. Right now I'm using a combination of 6DOF Freetrack headtracking, a Logitech Wingman Attack 2 from the '90s, and a mouse+keyboard. I do plan on getting a Saitek x52 soon as I find myself enjoying the flight sim genre more and more.

 

My joystick has the following functions: Collective throttle, left rudder, right rudder (both bound to buttons), cannon fire, missile/bombs release, trim, and lock target. In order to move the Skhval, engage HMS, arm weapons, select weapons, etc. I have to move my hand over to the keyboard. If I need to adjust magnification, I have to reach over to the mouse. I am positive that the Saitek x52 will be able to accomodate for 90% of the controls I use, but I cannot imagine doing all of these things at once like you describe. Target spotting and identification will still be an issue, I can imagine. I really wish the Skhval had a 1x magnification level, it would make life so much easier.

 

I guess I'll have to wait until I can get said controller. Thank you very much for the response, though.

 

I see what you're working with. With a sim like DCS:BS, you really do need some more buttons to keep your hands on the controls instead of back and forth to the keyboard. IL-2 and Rise of Flight would work fine, but not BS. Once you get your X52, you'll see a world of difference. When I upgraded from my dinky MS Sidewinder to the X45, everything just became so much easier.

 

Having a gaming keyboard helps as well. I've got a Logitech G15 keyboard which has 18 "G" keys on the left. You can assign macros to each of those keys instead of having to remember obscure key combinations.

 

For instance, instead of having to press A-Left Shift to engage the autopilot altitude hold function, I created a macro on my G11 key that does it. Or to turn my Weapon Master Arm on/off, instead of pressing W-Left Alt, I macroed that to my G9 key. In short, I've got my autopilot buttons, master on/off, laser designator on/off, and my entire datalink panel macroed in to those "G" keys. Makes it very, very quick to operate.

 

Edited August 8, 2009 by wickedpenguin

[ghost dog]

I thought the same thing through deployment campain... until the last mission (CODA), when you have to take out Abraham. Lots of SAM and AAA defenses... you really have to fly low, take cover, etc. very hard.

Edited August 10, 2009 by ghost dog