Rafale wins export for brazil.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

JaNko, according to the technical report, apparently leaked, the Gripen NG IS in advantage. Wether it's a real report or not it's a different story. Also, this is the TECHNICAL report, so other factors might change the decision, and these include politics.

 

Independant of what's the true techincal ranking, I hope it remains like such. Technical report was made by the Air Force, and the Air Force is the one who will use the aircraft. It's just like if you made a car ranking and they bought a different one for you because they think it's better for X or Y.

[EtherealN]

Yeah, there's a lot more than the aircraft itself involved, even beyond the purely political stuff like "who do we want to nurture trade with?" For example tech transfers, spare parts availability in the future and so on. Sweden has a legal disadvantage in the latter since the export laws prohibit sales to countries that are engaged in armed conflict internally or externally, which means that even if the NG is "better" there is the doubt about whether a Brazil that finds itself in war would be able to purchase replacement engines and so on when they end up actually having to use the product.

 

(Though as a side note, we swedes have been pretty good at somehow circumventing our own laws in this area a lot of times, but relying on us not obeying our laws is risky.)

[topol-m]

For some reason I`ve always liked the Gripen more. I hope SAAB wins this big deal. :thumbup:

[GGTharos]

Interesting! I would have picked the superhornet, but if it comes with 'no weapons unless you start shooting' conditions ... even though I understand the reason behind them, I'd have to pass up an aircraft that I cannot have ready when /I/ want.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

I guess that, independant of the plane, they'll probably use the missiles already in the Brazillian Air Force inventory.

 

By the time the FX-2 is deployed, there will probably be: A-Darter, to replace MAA-1 Piranha, Derby and Python 3/4. I don't know if the Python will be phased out after the Darter is delivered. Either way, this would probably kill any restriction of shooting them around if the F/A-18E is chosen. I don't know, however, if they're planning to acquire other missiles with the planes, so maybe everything I just said is a bunch of BS.

 

But people, most important of all, remember: NO DECISION WAS MADE YET. There was this major bluff caused by the press, but nothing was signed. Everything can happen between now and the final signature, so all we can do is speculate.

[EtherealN]

Ironically, by the way, that might be one thing that speaks in advantage for the NG since it's (apparently) made to employ american, british, french and israeli missiles. This would mean that Brazil would get, out of the box, an aircraft that in a crisis would allow them to choose pretty freely between missile vendors and their export laws. So even if they come to blows with whomever and sweden ends up blocking missile sales they'd still have several countries to talk to.

 

But, that said, I haven't checked out which weapon options the newer 18's and Rafales have.

[Pilotasso]

Interesting! I would have picked the superhornet, but if it comes with 'no weapons unless you start shooting' conditions ... even though I understand the reason behind them, I'd have to pass up an aircraft that I cannot have ready when /I/ want.

 

 

If I had to choose between those 2 I would have realy big problems deciding. Only thing capable of make the hornet win my preferrences is the radar. The fact the french new AESA's perfomance stats are much stealthier than the plane itself makes this comparison the more difficult.

 

Other than that I think the french plane might have a more robust defense and counter electronic systems than the Hornet (have been hearing a few very interesting stories).

 

The french plane is also more agile across the enevelope, versus the extreme authority of the hornets low speed envelope but poorer perfomance everywhere else.

 

 

The french plane has the meteor on its way to integration, dunno about the hornet, if its not then the rafale has a major advantage here.

 

This is my technical opinion, but see the last sentence.

 

 

I guess that, independant of the plane, they'll probably use the missiles already in the Brazillian Air Force inventory.

 

By the time the FX-2 is deployed, there will probably be: A-Darter, to replace MAA-1 Piranha, Derby and Python 3/4. I don't know if the Python will be phased out after the Darter is delivered. Either way, this would probably kill any restriction of shooting them around if the F/A-18E is chosen. I don't know, however, if they're planning to acquire other missiles with the planes, so maybe everything I just said is a bunch of BS.

 

But people, most important of all, remember: NO DECISION WAS MADE YET. There was this major bluff caused by the press, but nothing was signed. Everything can happen between now and the final signature, so all we can do is speculate.

 

The BVR missiles bought by brazil had lower price tags because they were used and nearing the end of their shelf lives. A new type should be bought soon.

The Rafale has a standardized wester military databus and thus should be capable of integrating most exportable missiles compatible with it. This was advertized years ago and I think its still true.

However I think the MICA and the meteor are probably the ones being offered out of the box.

 

Ironically, by the way, that might be one thing that speaks in advantage for the NG since it's (apparently) made to employ american, british, french and israeli missiles. This would mean that Brazil would get, out of the box, an aircraft that in a crisis would allow them to choose pretty freely between missile vendors and their export laws. So even if they come to blows with whomever and sweden ends up blocking missile sales they'd still have several countries to talk to.

 

But, that said, I haven't checked out which weapon options the newer 18's and Rafales have.

 

Unfortunatly for the Gripen weapons arent the only things that can be blocked out of export to support it.

It uses american engines and several avionics components from the UK and US.

The Rafale is the only one that offers the most independence of supply in case of US blockage.

 

This is why, If I were Brazilian I would undoublty choose the Rafale over the 2 others.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Pilotasso

[topol-m]

^^^ And there was the talking about some limitations with the Amraam supply. :huh:

About the Gripen having US and UK parts, i don`t think this is a problem. SAAB will deliver them if needed there is no need for Brazil negotiating this directly with their manufacturer.

[EtherealN]

Also, it should be noted that the engine isn't strictly "US". It's a Volvo Aero derivative of an american motor. They still have to get permission from the US to export it, but it also means a greater amount of interchangeability. (I think. Most of the fine print in those deals are obviously not available to me.)

[Lucas_From_Hell]

That's why they want technology transfer maxed. This is actually the most important factor of the competition.

 

Making missiles compatible, I think, should be a relatively easy task, considering the three of them use western standards.

 

Anyway, when the official decison is announced, then we can start to speculate in some direction, at least :D.