The WW2 Thread (Me-163, B-17, etc.)

[hitman]

the me163 was a more superior dogfighter. its too bad that aircraft went the way it went.

[Airway]

the me163 was a more superior dogfighter. its too bad that aircraft went the way it went.

 

The Me-163 was a dogfighter? That's new to me.

 

It was built to pick Fortresses out of the sky and glide back home.

[hitman]

The WW2 Thread (Me-163, B-17, etc.)

 

The Me-163 was a dogfighter? That's new to me.

 

It was built to pick Fortresses out of the sky and glide back home.

 

The discovery channel did a documentary on the Me-163 during WW2. One fight was recorded in the logs as the Me-163 actually dogfighting a DeHavilland Mosquito, which is a feat all by itself. That may not sound impressive, but the Mosquito was a formidable fighter itself for abomber. I dont remember much about other dogfights it was involved in, but no Me-163 has ever been shot down that I know of.

[EtherealN]

but no Me-163 has ever been shot down that I know of.

 

AFAIK there were actually a lot of Komets shot down - usually while on their way home. It may have been the mother of all energy fighters while it still had fuel, but on the way home it was a sitting duck. Even worse than the 262 (which had to slow down and accelerate very carefully to avoid igniting the Jumos) which was also picked off a lot while returning to base.

Edited February 23, 2010 by EtherealN
Thread split obsoletes some comments

[hitman]

AFAIK there were actually a lot of Komets shot down - usually while on their way home. It may have been the mother of all energy fighters while it still had fuel, but on the way home it was a sitting duck. Even worse than the 262 (which had to slow down and accelerate very carefully to avoid igniting the Jumos) which was also picked off a lot while returning to base.

 

Anyway, we can create an ME-163 thread if we want to discuss it. This here is the PAK-FA thread. :)

That doesnt count since it doesnt count as a2a combat...more like a target of opportunity. And NO!!! I fully intend on hijacking this thread for the sole purpose of making this the Me-163 thread. Dont like it, make me a moderator and then fire me for it.

[GGTharos]

The Me163 may have been very maneuverable, but it was no more a dogfighter than a glider is.

[EtherealN]

Hitman, it's an a2a kill because an aerial weapons platform killed another aerial vehicle. It may not have been a "dogfight", but if you require it to be dogfights then I guess a kill on a B17 isn't an A2A kill either - and therefore no B17's were killed in the air? Remember that what you said was "no Me-163 has ever been shot down", not "no Me-163 has ever been shot down in a way that counts". If the pilots were credited with a kill afterwards, it counts for me. ;)

 

And it's not a "target of opportunity" either: just like with the 262 the allies had CAP around those airfields with the specific mission of trapping 163's and 262's as they were heading in to land. They were met with aircraft that were too fast to catch up there around the bombers, so they deviced other ways to catch them.

 

But even with those kills, the #1 cause of death and loss of airframes was the 163 simply exploding. :P

Edited February 21, 2010 by EtherealN

[hitman]

Hitman, it's an a2a kill because an aerial weapons platform killed another aerial vehicle. It may not have been a "dogfight", but if you require it to be dogfights then I guess a kill on a B17 isn't an A2A kill either - and therefore no B17's were killed in the air? Remember that what you said was "no Me-163 has ever been shot down", not "no Me-163 has ever been shot down in a way that counts". If the pilots were credited with a kill afterwards, it counts for me. ;)

 

And it's not a "target of opportunity" either: just like with the 262 the allies had CAP around those airfields with the specific mission of trapping 163's and 262's as they were heading in to land. They were met with aircraft that were too fast to catch up there around the bombers, so they deviced other ways to catch them.

 

But even with those kills, the #1 cause of death and loss of airframes was the 163 simply exploding. :P

i never said it was never shot down, i said it was never shot down that i know of. and b-17's scored the most a2a kills during the war...does that mean the b-17 was an excellent dog fighter? what is percieved as a2a combat is one or more aircraft engaged in combat where both have the ability to kill each other. even the geneva conventions state you cannot kill an unarmed man in cold blood. thats what shooting vulnerable aircraft is...unjustified murder. all thats percieved is shooting and destroying equipment. just fyi iwas kidding about hijacking guys...lets not take this too seriously!

Edited February 21, 2010 by hitman

[EtherealN]

We can always discuss what the geneva convention would have to say about what the B17's did as well. :P

Edited February 23, 2010 by EtherealN
Thread split obsoletes some comments