When can you get in the 600-700€ class?

[zakobi]

I was thinking on getting a new PC which are to cost around 600-700€ as i don't got alot of money to do with.

 

I found an article which says that following will be around ~660€

 

CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 620

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2

RAM: PATRIOT 4 GB DDR2/800 (the only ones i could fine that looked like those in the article cost around 3x times more :()

GPU: SAPPHIRE RADEON HD5770

Harddrive: SEAGATE 500GB BARRACUDA 7200. 12

That thing where DVD's goes into: SAMSUNG SH-S223C

Cabinet: ROSEWILL R220

PSU: COOLER MASTER RS-460

OS: WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM OEM

 

I'm planning to play Lo:FC and STLAKER CoP on it. Forgot to add BC2.

Edited March 11, 2010 by zakobi

[EtherealN]

Looks pretty fine, but do run a few doublechecks on the motherboard. The motherboard is the one thing you must not be cheap on, since a bad motherboard can drag the entire computer down with it.

 

I'm a bit skeptical of that CPU though. It's a pretty fine CPU for general use, but in the specific case of LO:FC and DCS (and therefore also FC2) it's clock speed you want, and that one's at a measly 2.6GHz. It'll probably run it quite fine anyhow, but I suspect that even a 100 euro i3 would run LO:FC better. (But it would run Stalker CoP less well, I expect.)

[zakobi]

Looks pretty fine, but do run a few doublechecks on the motherboard. The motherboard is the one thing you must not be cheap on, since a bad motherboard can drag the entire computer down with it.

 

I'm a bit skeptical of that CPU though. It's a pretty fine CPU for general use, but in the specific case of LO:FC and DCS (and therefore also FC2) it's clock speed you want, and that one's at a measly 2.6GHz. It'll probably run it quite fine anyhow, but I suspect that even a 100 euro i3 would run LO:FC better. (But it would run Stalker CoP less well, I expect.)

 

Will it be feasible to get at duel core with higher GHz instead? But i'll check the i3

 

BTW, I'm not planning to overclock, as i don't want to risk it all get fried and i'm left with nothing.

[Feuerfalke]

If you can find it somewhere, I'd get Biostar A780L3 instead of the Gigabyte. It has a much higher data transfer rate (5.2MT/s while the Gigabyte has 2MT/s) for the same price.

 

You'd need to get DDR3-memory, but you will support your CPU much better an you can still upgrade to more and faster memory later on.

On the other hand, the Kingston Value RAM DIMM Kit 4GB PC3-10667U CL9 is just 40 Euros more, but a LOT faster.

 

 

For LO and DCS you shouldn't save too much on CPU, mainboard and RAM.

 

 

 

Edit: Yes, for LO and DCS a quad-core doesn't seem to increase performance much over a dual-core.

[Feuerfalke]

What do you think about the AMD Athlon II X2 250 ?

 

3GHz and 2x1MB cache - and you save 30 Euros you can spend on the memory ;)

[EtherealN]

My one concern on the X2 250 would be the balancing between the software intended to be used. I haven't actually checked if CoP multithreads, and I'm also pretty suspicious about CPU's with split caches - might make Dx10/11 load balancing more difficult for the OS and induce another overhead. (Though I haven't seen anyone run a proper test on that for DCS or FC2.)

 

That aside though, the higher clock speed, given the lack of overclocking, will probably offset that.

 

Another idea is to re-use DVD-drive, computer case and PSU if possible from an older computer. In the specific case of the PSU it would be necessary to doublecheck that it's got the cables you need - specifically the PCI-E connectors. But it can save you a couple hundred euro that you can either keep in the bank or spend on higher-end components. (I've been tempted to build an i5 or i7 rig lately, and one of the cost-saving measures is to re-use components - some socket 1156 motherboards even allow me to re-use the socket 775 CPU cooler I have.)

Edited March 11, 2010 by EtherealN

[zakobi]

My one concern on the X2 250 would be the balancing between the software intended to be used. I haven't actually checked if CoP multithreads, and I'm also pretty suspicious about CPU's with split caches - might make Dx10/11 load balancing more difficult for the OS and induce another overhead. (Though I haven't seen anyone run a proper test on that for DCS or FC2.)

 

That aside though, the higher clock speed, given the lack of overclocking, will probably offset that.

 

Another idea is to re-use DVD-drive, computer case and PSU if possible from an older computer. In the specific case of the PSU it would be necessary to doublecheck that it's got the cables you need - specifically the PCI-E connectors. But it can save you a couple hundred euro that you can either keep in the bank or spend on higher-end components. (I've been tempted to build an i5 or i7 rig lately, and one of the cost-saving measures is to re-use components - some socket 1156 motherboards even allow me to re-use the socket 775 CPU cooler I have.)

 

I can't remember, but my current PC is from 2004-2006... and that was at around the 660€ again... Only things I've upgraded is the GPU as my old simply overheated and got fried (the fan started to make uneven rotations) so there i wnet from a 6600gt to a HD 3850. mind you it is a AVG connection (euww). And then RAM was also upgraded from 1GB to 2 GB

 

I'm not sure if my current cabinet can take the new size of this stuff, besides it lacks fans. The suggested cabinet seems to have some installed by default.

I'm not sure if my PSU got high enough output.

And last my hard-drive. I do not know how fast it is, but i'm positive that it's way slower than even the slowest of current cheap hard-dries. but i think it's one of the things i can salvage fine.

[EtherealN]

Ah, yeah, seems like the safe bet is to upgrade those components as well, then. :/

[zakobi]

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/stalker_cpu_performance/

 

Here it says that CoP does use MT

Dual Core and Performance

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl should utilize your dual and quad core processor natively and automatically. Running a dual or quad core processor is one of the best ways to improve performance.

[Feuerfalke]

My one concern on the X2 250 would be the balancing between the software intended to be used. I haven't actually checked if CoP multithreads, and I'm also pretty suspicious about CPU's with split caches - might make Dx10/11 load balancing more difficult for the OS and induce another overhead. (Though I haven't seen anyone run a proper test on that for DCS or FC2.)

 

Out of pure interest: What multicore-CPU you know does NOT use "split cache"?

 

 

That aside though, the higher clock speed, given the lack of overclocking, will probably offset that.

 

The mainboard and the memory already max out the CPU - there's not much margin for OCing if you go for just the cheapest price.

 

 

 

 

I agree on the case, though, but that is probably not the most expensive part. A new case is available at 10-20 Euros if you don't have too high expectations. It also offers the chance to either keep both PCs or sell the old rig ;)

[zakobi]

Out of pure interest: What multicore-CPU you know does NOT use "split cache"?

 

 

 

 

The mainboard and the memory already max out the CPU - there's not much margin for OCing if you go for just the cheapest price.

 

 

 

 

I agree on the case, though, but that is probably not the most expensive part. A new case is available at 10-20 Euros if you don't have too high expectations. It also offers the chance to either keep both PCs or sell the old rig ;)

 

I'm thinking on either giving or selling it to my little-sister.

[Feuerfalke]

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/stalker_cpu_performance/

 

Here it says that CoP does use MT

 

To be honest, the test speaks a different language. The performance-gain is just when going from single-core to dual-core. The difference in the test showed, that quad-cores run the games even slower in some tests.

 

So I wouldn't waste my money on that comment alone.

 

(BTW: CoP has no multi-threading. It supports multi-core systems, because it's DX10.1. So it has the same limitations DCS and LO have. This would also correspond with the tests of CoP)

 

Edit:

I'm thinking on either giving or selling it to my little-sister.

 

Good idea. ;)

Edited March 11, 2010 by Feuerfalke

[zakobi]

To be honest, the test speaks a different language. The performance-gain is just when going from single-core to dual-core. The difference in the test showed, that quad-cores run the games even slower in some tests.

 

So I wouldn't waste my money on that comment alone.

 

(BTW: CoP has no multi-threading. It supports multi-core systems, because it's DX10.1. So it has the same limitations DCS and LO have. This would also correspond with the tests of CoP)

 

But i'm also thinking on playing BC2 on it, and a friend who has it, says that quad is recommended for it.

[EtherealN]

Out of pure interest: What multicore-CPU you know does NOT use "split cache"?

 

Intel eXXXX, qXXXX, i3, i5, i7, the newer Phenoms and so on.

 

The basic layout on the newest chips (like i7 and AMD's newer chips) is that each core has it's own L1 and L2, and then a shared L3. Older chips, especially AMD's lower-cost chips, have separate L1 and L2 for each core and nothing shared between the cores at all, while even the Core2 chips had shared L2 (6MB on my e8500).

[Feuerfalke]

Ah, you meant the additional Lv3 Cache! Well, the equivalent Phenom is available for only 20 Euros more.

 

But I don't know if the advantage will be that important. Check out these benchmarks:

http://hothardware.com/Articles/AMD-Phenom-II-X2-555-and-Athlon-II-X4-635-Performance/?page=4

 

For a dual core, it's even less important, the way Lv3-cache works.

 

 

But if you still consider going for the Phenom for the possible performance gain, you're so close to the i5, that I'd go for the intel.

 

 

 

If you want to run BC2 at full details, I recommend an intel. But to be honest, you'll run the game at low or medium quality anyway, because it still looks awesome, but it's a LOT faster ;)

[EtherealN]

Well, it's not "additional" in the case of the Core2 Duo and Quad. The e8500 f.ex has 32KB L1 on each core and a shared 6MB L2. (With the quads looking pretty much like two fused Duos with 2 L2's each of 6MB, with a pair of cores for each.) The L2 was shared on the Core2 all the way from the E4xxx chips. (2MB shared L2 in that case.)

 

As for how big a difference it makes, that's very hard to say without specific benchmarks of DCS since the potential way for it to make a difference is in load balancing (no need to move whatever's in the caches when switching cores). I don't think it's a big deal - at least not compared to things like clock speed, but I still don't like them. Reminds me too much of the early attempts to make a "multicore" through simply gluing together two single-core dies. :P

 

So to get back on topic: Zakobi, I personally would avoid CPU's with split caches, but I am willing to admit that that is more a case of "taste" than proven performance costs of that layout.

[Feuerfalke]

Interesting! Thanks for sharing. My local reseller has the c2d e8500 listed as fitted with 2x3072kb lv2 cache.

[zakobi]

So to get back on topic: Zakobi, I personally would avoid CPU's with split caches, but I am willing to admit that that is more a case of "taste" than proven performance costs of that layout.

 

So the suggested CPU isn't a good choice? I'm not much into CPU's and there performance.

[EtherealN]

I'd say it's a good choice for the money, and except for the suggestions put forth by Feuerfalke the pricetag can jump considerably when you go for better stuff.

 

Feuer, the stats I lifted for the e8500 was taken from both official docs and a quick look at CPU-Z. Weird to have it listed as 2x3.

[Feuerfalke]

You can always go a step higher and go for better hardware. But for most of us mortal the budget is the limiting factor.

 

 

@ Ethereal:

I sent the reseller a message to correct that statement. It's pretty obviously a mistake.

[zakobi]

Thanks for the help EtherealN and Feuerfalke.

 

My only problem that still exist is this one:

RAM: PATRIOT 4 GB DDR2/800 (the only ones i could fine that looked like those in the article cost around 3x times more )

Do you have any other suggestions for alternatives, which still got good performance versus price?

[EtherealN]

I am very happy with the DDR2/800 sticks I have in my signature. Given, I pay extra for overclockability.

[Feuerfalke]

As I posted before, if you go for a modern mainboard for the same price as the one with the limited lifecycle left you named, you should go for DDR3 memory:

 

Kingston Value RAM DDR3 DIMM Kit 4GB PC3-10667U CL9

 

If you will go for a DDR2-board, your RAM will be much cheaper, of course.

 

I'll try to find some cheaper modules. Do you have a shop where you intend to order your hardware? Or are you intending to buy them in a shop?

[zakobi]

As I posted before, if you go for a modern mainboard for the same price as the one with the limited lifecycle left you named, you should go for DDR3 memory:

 

Kingston Value RAM DDR3 DIMM Kit 4GB PC3-10667U CL9

 

If you will go for a DDR2-board, your RAM will be much cheaper, of course.

 

I'll try to find some cheaper modules. Do you have a shop where you intend to order your hardware? Or are you intending to buy them in a shop?

 

I normally find my stuff at this site http://www.edbpriser.dk/ as they got all danish online retailers collected here, where you then can compare prices, delivery time, costumer satisfaction etc...

[zakobi]

Could these work? GeIL Black Dragon EVO ONE 2 x 2 GB

couldn't find any danish stores which seels the 4GB Crucial BallistiX Tracer Black DDR2...