Looking for a few good Beta testers for new mission with a couple of ME "issues"

[Bahger]

** EDIT: I have attached an updated .miz file in this thread for anyone interested. It's a good mission and it would be helpful to know if I'm the only one getting crashes when I exit the mission. **

 

** EDIT: I am experiencing some ugly technical issues with this mission that are diminishing my enthusiasm for finishing it. I'm cross-referencing my appeal for help in the Beta/Crash thread in the hope it will increase my chances of getting some help, thank you. **

 

Gents, I never ask for Beta testers unless I am confident that my WIP mission is pretty well evolved, quite thoroughly tested and has a full brief.

 

My mission, "Thunder Alley" will remain a work in progress until the cluster munitions work again, hopefully in Beta 5, as the briefed targets are all moving vehicles for which I had hoped to equip the player with CBU-87s as well as Mavericks.

 

The mission is fun, with spectacular scenery and canyon flying. It incorporates a pretty fierce ground battle, artillery, detailed radio messages, an A-10 AFAC, numerous MANPADS, AAA and an F-15E DEAD flight. The concept is to provide CAS and interdiction in support of a Stryker force that gets pinned down while moving to reinforce a remote canyon OP under threat from Red armor.

 

** Use "Realistic" radios and tune to 124 VHF AM as soon as you start in-flight; there is a lot of good radio chatter from support units on this common frequency. Also, use F-10 view to see the action on the ground, it's worth it. **

 

Apart from the CBU issue, I have experienced the following problems, some of which may be of interest to the devs. I'd appreciate comments, solutions and any useful info you might provide having either played the mission or looked at it in the ME:

 

- The AFAC radio messages are doubled up, in other words, from the datalink stage of the 9-line, everything is said twice. This cannot be right. Otherwise the AFAC/JTAC works beautifully but you have to stick to the script, making all the required calls, or the program can crash.

 

- The mission ends all too often in a crash, which sometimes wipes out the debrief, a real pain when you want to test it and examine the results. I suspect it's a function of the intensity of the ground battle (not that it's more than platoon-size) but I'd appreciate any info about how to address this...if possible.

 

- The starting altitude, while set to 15,000ft MSL, varies tremendously with every playthrough. You'll find yourself starting at anything between 15k and 20k. It's an odd quirk, this; maybe it's about how the sim reads safe altitude relative to peaks in the mountain terrain.

 

- You will sometimes see MANPADS destroying incoming Mavericks from the Strike Eagles.

 

There may be a few other little teething issues -- I intend to refine synchronisation and victory conditions -- but I'm confident you'll find this an entertaining mission with a decent level of tactical challenge. I'm pleased with both the concept and the execution but the above problems are causing me to scratch my head and worry about how to get it ready for prime-time. Please note that I have not done any of the final presentational tweaking like hiding enemy units on the map, etc., but there is a detailed brief and much in-mission guidance via radio text messages.

 

I'd really appreciate input, especially from folks who enjoyed my "Taking Out the Trash" scenario. Thank you.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Bahger

[mtuckner]

Ran your mission a couple of times. Enjoying the concept, very believable and entertaining thus far. Two issues in my experience. I was not able to finish due to a crash that happened twice, shortly after Custer is in position, perhaps less than a minute each time. To note, I was also trying to raise the JFAC at that time but not at any exact moment. I would check in but received no reply. Also, I was on 124 VHF AM. I looked in the editor and he seemed to be configured right.

[Bahger]

Thank you for running it. I have had no problem raising the AFAC on comms, which I tend to do while extending north to IP Dodge.

 

The crashing is vexing but I may have run it down. There is a lot going on in the latter stages of the mission, with at least 40 separate infantry units (US infantry and Insurgent troops) deployed and moving, plus 14 ground vehicles and 6 aircraft. When you add to this a great deal of action -- LAWs and Spandrels flying between the vehicles, explosions, infantry combat -- then even a platoon-size firefight might bring a fast computer to its knees. I think I might avoid too much infantry in future missions. Also, I think that the Mav video accounts for a lot of computing.

 

So...I decided to dial down my settings. I had draw distance on high so I switched it to medium and the mission ran without crashing for the first time in 24 hours. If I can replicate this, I will post the revised mission with the recommendation that users, even those like me with fast PCs, go easy on the eye candy.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Bahger

[mtuckner]

Well, from that perspective, I would recommend you tone down the individual troops as unless you hit F7 and watch you don't see, which I hate doing F7. I didn't lose any framerate or anything so it is weird that it crashes without slowing down first.

[Bahger]

I'm grinding my teeth here. Either it crashes towards the end of the mission, in which case I lose the debrief, or it crashes after I end the mission, which at least preserves the debrief.

 

I just don't think the sim in its current state is stable enough to run this mission. Either that, or there is a relationship between individual gfx (or other system settings) and game crashes in DCS A-10 that I am not aware of. It would be great to hear from one of the ED guys.

 

The infantry are great for immersion in that, once you get really competent with the TGP, you can see them deploying. However, this being a flight sim rather than a battlefield sim, I'd be happy to compromise and re-make the mission without infantry -- and the heavy burden they might impose on my CPU -- but before I do this I'd love to get an opinion from one of the devs.

 

I also don't understand why the AFAC gives his instructions twice during the latter stages of the 9-line call and response. I have experienced several vexing little anomalies like this in JTAC behavior. If the ED guys play the mission they might find it useful because I'm experienced with JTAC editing in the ME and do not make errors when using this feature.

 

Eh.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Bahger

[mtuckner]

Okay, one good news, one bad. Turned down eye candy nearly all the way except medium draw distance. It crashed at the exact same spot as always, about one minute after Custer arrives. Also, the good news is that I was using realistic radios and used to JTAC being on FM and was using that mic switch instead of using the AM switch. My bad! I can confirm that the JTAC does a double read-back for each line after the datalink.

[mtuckner]

I want to add one other thing, from a mission planning perspective there was one sort of counterintuitive component. The location of IP Dodge being north of friendlies above the origin of the enemy units seems to not make sense and I was confused because it was not a waypoint and it felt "odd" circling above the enemy occupied territory instead of adjacent or to the south of friendlies.

[Bahger]

True but the player is told to hold altitude above the SAM envelope, there is a DEAD flight and it is much more desirable to run in on an enemy convoy from behind it than from the front, especially when it is moving. Once the CBUs are fixed this will be much less of an issue and I might change the IP because a CBU attack requires much less of an offset.

[Druid_]

Hey Bahger, I warned you that mission building in beta stage would be a frustrating experience. There are guys getting crashes in the ED missions so I don't think there's necessarily a bug in yours. Its a GUI mission builder so you shouldn't be able to crash it in theory.

 

My only advise would be to send ED your crash file and let them pick through it.

 

Given the ED testers/developers involvement in other Forum sections, I find it a little disheartening to see very little from them in the mission editor section. Bit worrying really.

[Bahger]

Yes, you nailed it, Druid. And someone says ED does not support overclocked PCs in the Beta.

 

I sent all my crash files and a track to a helpful ED dev in this thread. Take a look. At the very least you might find the track entertaining.

 

This is a well-designed, well-tested mission. If I could just stabilise the crashing (which is not always fatal as most of the time it occurs when exiting and often preserves the debrief) and the odd, repetitive JTAC messages, I want to release it as I think you will enjoy it.

[Greb]

Hey Bahger I will give it a go and see what comes up or crashing down....so to speak! I am just starting to get the ME down so everything for me is a learning experience at this point!

[Bahger]

Thanks very much, Greb. The ME is a great tool, and fun to use, but it has its quirks. It would be very helpful for me to know if it's my system that is causing the mission to crash on exit or some aspect of the ME, because if it's the latter, I can re-do it once I know what it is.

[Greb]

I think I got it Bahger!

 

You had 24 inf units as mentioned before in a one group! Whenever you set waypoints for any unit in the sim you are creating a track for them to follow in the sim. This takes a lot of calculation on the CPU's part. You have to think of units, any units as a synchronized ballet team. Whenever you put those units on a certain path it has to calculate for the whole unit. Its like a big train or or slinky. Whenever the man at the front has to make a turn or track adjustment the CPU has to calculate for the whole group. Slowing them down turning them in a new direction and then speeding them back up what not. It's a lot of strain on the ol' PC hardware for such a mundane task.

 

I broke your infantry down to 4 units of 6 and then added Group activation for each of them. Same as you did for the whole group. This way the CPU only has to calculate for 6 guys at on time instead of 24.

 

I ran it with your setting at first and it crashed on me just as I got to valley. I then fixed it to the 4 groups of six and it ran flawlessly! Ran all the way to the end. Got credit for the mission and the whole debrief. I usually keep my units from 4 to 6 in a group. It's just easier on the CPU.

 

Anyways! Very cool little mission I like it a lot. That canyon flying is intense. You go in hit a unit look over your shoulder for the kill, turn face forward and you are looking at a big green wall! LOL!!!

 

Here it is with my little fix. Give it a go!

 

Greb

Thunder_Alley_20 remix.miz

Edited January 7, 2011 by Greb
Public Education

[Bahger]

Wow, if that fixes it, Greb, I owe you big time!

 

It's going to be WIP until ED fixes the cluster munitions in the next Beta (hopefully) because even though the Mavericks are great against moving vehicles, they require a greater offset for running in. I like the idea of using Mavs as standoff weapons, then hitting the remnants with CBU-87s. I want the mission to combine "smart" and "dumb" anti-armor weapons so I won't release it until the CBUs work again.

 

I'm going to try your amended version now, thanks a lot! So there was no crash/error message on exiting the mission for you?

 

EDIT: Well, unfortunately I still got the exit error message but it's not fatal because I can win the mission, exit when I want and still get the debrief. This means it may be a problem with my install since I can't imagine that it's a problem with my system. When B5 comes out I had better do a clean install. Meanwhile your fix is great, good to know these things, but the Red infantry spawned on mission start instead of when their APCs arrive in the trigger zone. This is because units/groups will not spawn per trigger unless they are set to commence 23 hours after the start of the mission. I fixed that and here is the amended version. I must say, I like flying this mission; I just wish I could get rid of the pesky error messages on exit.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Bahger

[Greb]

Wow, if that fixes it, Greb, I owe you big time!

 

It's going to be WIP until ED fixes the cluster munitions in the next Beta (hopefully) because even though the Mavericks are great against moving vehicles, they require a greater offset for running in. I like the idea of using Mavs as standoff weapons, then hitting the remnants with CBU-87s. I want the mission to combine "smart" and "dumb" anti-armor weapons so I won't release it until the CBUs work again.

 

I'm going to try your amended version now, thanks a lot! So there was no crash/error message on exiting the mission for you?

 

EDIT: Well, unfortunately I still got the exit error message but it's not fatal because I can win the mission, exit when I want and still get the debrief. This means it may be a problem with my install since I can't imagine that it's a problem with my system. When B5 comes out I had better do a clean install. Meanwhile your fix is great, good to know these things, but the Red infantry spawned on mission start instead of when their APCs arrive in the trigger zone. This is because units/groups will not spawn per trigger unless they are set to commence 23 hours after the start of the mission. I fixed that and here is the amended version. I must say, I like flying this mission; I just wish I could get rid of the pesky error messages on exit.

 

Sorry I missed that Bahger! No I never got the error message. Mission ended and went straight to Debrief. Glad it worked for ya. Yeah it's probably the install. Did you patch or run full install on 4? I agree I would just do the clean install when beta 5 hits.

 

Keep at it. Like everything it just gets easier with time. Yeah that 23 hour time hold was a baffler for me. It took me forever to get that down.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Greb

[Bahger]

I patched to B4 because I felt daunted by the full reinstall. I guess I learned my lesson, although the good news is that if the mission worked for you, it works, notwithstanding my own "issues". As I said, though, I won't release any final version util CBUs are available again.

 

(If you don't mind, when B5 comes out I might pick your brain about the best way to do the full reinstall. I have all the files downloaded via Torrent but am not sure how to manage uninstalling the whole thing, reinstalling it all in the right order and, above all, preserving all my user-made .miz files etc.)

[Greb]

I patched to B4 because I felt daunted by the full reinstall. I guess I learned my lesson, although the good news is that if the mission worked for you, it works, notwithstanding my own "issues". As I said, though, I won't release any final version util CBUs are available again.

 

(If you don't mind, when B5 comes out I might pick your brain about the best way to do the full reinstall. I have all the files downloaded via Torrent but am not sure how to manage uninstalling the whole thing, reinstalling it all in the right order and, above all, preserving all my user-made .miz files etc.)

 

Yeah bud PM me when beta 5 comes out and I will give you a "must do" for clean install!