What camp are you in? AP channels or NO AP channels...

[WynnTTr]

KosPilot I really enjoyed watching your track and thought it was pretty exciting to watch you challenge yourself. That tank kill was spectacular BTW as well as that high speed landing approach thingy you did at the end (without benifit of a HUD due to the previously mentioned tank destroying it). Great demonstration of your piloting skills.

 

While I do fly with the AP channels engaged, once the feces hits the occillator, I tend to slam on the Flight Director so I can have full authority of the aircraft. I do like having the dampeners engaged to smooth out my panicked jerking around of the cyclic. ;)

Holding the trimmer gives you full control a la FD and without the need to press an extra button (if you have it mapped to your HOTAS).

[Macross]

The previously mentioned video can be found here as well: http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/Force_Feedback/485/

 

That there is flying with the stab channels on, and you can see him trim constantly, which is the proper way to handle the aircraft.

 

In this video which im sure everyone has seen a thousand times, you can hear the trimmer in action as the pilot takes off and flys to the little test area to do some aerobatics for his mate on the ground.

 

(cant seem to get imbedded video to work :( )

 

 

Interestingly once at about 3:32 he calls out something in Russian (would love to know what he says) and then proceeds with his manuvers. During the stall turns and other manuvers, i dont hear the trimmer in action any longer. Like he has switched off the AP channels to be able to flick the air frame around with more agility.

 

 

Also, if this picture is correct and the trimmer button is placed on the cyclic as shown, then i dont see him touch the trimmer once during his display in the video posted by EtherealN. Can anyone confirm which button on the cyclic is the actual trimmer control?

Edited March 30, 2011 by Macross

[AlphaOneSix]

The picture is not correct. It's the white/beige button in the middle. It's where your thumb naturally rests.

 

There are several points in the demo where he is mashing the trimmer like it owes him money, but yeah, for the most part, he is not using it. Not because he has the AP off, but because he wants to keep his cyclic centered in the same spot, and because it's much easier to do maneuvers like that when you have spring tension on the cyclic. With no tension (tension is released when the trimmer button is held down) it can be very difficult to make smooth maneuvers, as the cyclic is terribly sloppy.

 

Turning off AP does not give the aircraft more agility. If anyone believes it does so in the game, then that's cool, maybe we are having a different experience, and maybe the game isn't perfect, but I can guarantee the real aircraft doesn't have that problem.

Edited March 30, 2011 by AlphaOneSix

[KosPilot]

Very interesting KosPilot.

 

So maybe we can come to a conclusion then that the KA-50 more or less feels

like an smaller sized helicopter when the Stability Augmentation System is OFF?

Could also be induvidual joystick setup ingame.

But the way you describe to fly that 300 is how i flew the KA50 in game and the 76B in real.

Though i did noticed the 76B wasn't as touchy.

(maybe due to its larger overall mass?)

 

Suprises me really, but yes the smaller copters tend to be more twitchy.

 

As for learning how to fly helicopters, most likely can't afford it @ all at the moment. But ill take any change to get up in the air flying.

Just to confirm, a S300CBI is something like this right?

 

Anyways, good read so far and that you may get your PPL soon, its already expensive enough as it is.

 

Good luck and keep those rotors turning.

 

~S~

(it is your PPL your going for right?)

 

Agreed :)

I support your conclusion 100%.

 

I have no experience flying bigger and more advanced choppers, including what operational procedures are dictated by their respective flight manuals. Based on that, and with comparison to BlackShark, I found your experience most interesting. Hopefully I will get to do the same at some point :)

 

S300CBi, that's the kite! The instructors say the Robinson 22 is even more twitchy! The BS being coaxial, its still close enough to prepare anyone for their first TIF like no other sim (IMHO), FSX included. DoDoSim has a pretty good FSX module for Bell 206, but for whatever reason it didn't do much for me.

In the smaller choppers you will also have to learn to use the throttle to manually maintain rotor RPM (S**t, yet another control..!)

 

CPL, I'm going commercial. Flying helis are waaay to expensive for me just to have as a hobby, so I will need someone to pay for it! :D

 

Good luck to you too! Coming prepared to the TIF was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. Let me know how you go when you get there :)

[Panzertard]

The picture is not correct. It's the white/beige button in the middle. It's where your thumb naturally rests.

 

There are several points in the demo where he is mashing the trimmer like it owes him money, but yeah, for the most part, he is not using it. Not because he has the AP off, but because he wants to keep his cyclic centered in the same spot, and because it's much easier to do maneuvers like that when you have spring tension on the cyclic. With no tension (tension is released when the trimmer button is held down) it can be very difficult to make smooth maneuvers, as the cyclic is terribly sloppy.

 

Turning off AP does not give the aircraft more agility. If anyone believes it does so in the game, then that's cool, maybe we are having a different experience, and maybe the game isn't perfect, but I can guarantee the real aircraft doesn't have that problem.

Cheers bud, this is good intel.

[KosPilot]

KosPilot I really enjoyed watching your track and thought it was pretty exciting to watch you challenge yourself. That tank kill was spectacular BTW as well as that high speed landing approach thingy you did at the end (without benifit of a HUD due to the previously mentioned tank destroying it). Great demonstration of your piloting skills.

 

While I do fly with the AP channels engaged, once the feces hits the occillator, I tend to slam on the Flight Director so I can have full authority of the aircraft. I do like having the dampeners engaged to smooth out my panicked jerking around of the cyclic. ;)

 

Thank you for your compliments :)

In all modesty I must emphasize that the track is to demonstrate that, with a bit of practice, BS is controllable w/o AP channels, hence no alias during playback.

Realistically and according to the majority of this forum, it may not be the desired way to fly, but it's still possible in DCS:BS and it has its applications.

Happy flying :smilewink:

Edited March 30, 2011 by KosPilot

[AlphaOneSix]

Where I work we have an Mi-17 that has had a broken AP for almost 2 years (gremlins) and we teach new guys to fly it like that. Good training I suppose, but yesterday I was talking to one of the older pilots (time with company, he was actually pretty young) and he was saying how surprised he was that we make new guys fly with no AP, and that after just a couple of traffic patterns you'd be drenched in sweat. So far, pilots with no AP experience (usually MD500 guys) have no problem flying it like that, but pilots used to having SAS really miss it when it doesn't work. So there is a good reason to fly without it, as far as I'm concerned, but I'd never do it unless I had to. (I get drenched in enough sweat practicing my hovering).

[Panzertard]

Good point - you need to be trained for a situation where you have system malfunction and be prepared on how to use it.

However, in combat - when your SA and workload gets saturated, you need to minimize your workload to maximize your performance.

AP stabilizers will help you with that.