Suggestion to add variety to scripted missions

[goon3r]

So I guess we've all seen the debates about having dynamic vs scripted campaigns and missions. I started thinking about this at a lower level, how about if we could add some randomness to the scripted missions themselves and forget about the campaign for a moment. By randomness I'm specifically talking about AI units. I find that after I fly a mission a couple of times I pretty much know where all AAA, Armor, Manpads etc are, 2 Hinds from the south east, at the top of that hill etc. My idea is to make the missions themselves dynamic by adding randomness to AI group/unit properties and location.

 

While I am sure there are still holes in this idea, some of the obvious ones are addressed in the bullet list of rules below. Please read them before you chew the idea to bits.

 

 

Here are some of the rules that the mission randomizer must follow:

 

• The biggest underlying rule about my suggestion is that the FLOT or an AI/Enemy Zone must be respected. You don't want helicopters to be spawned over their enemy's airbase.
  

 

• You must keep vehicles out of buildings, water, heavily wooded areas etc.
  

 

• You must keep some vehicles in strategic areas, if they are part of the core of the mission. For example tanks defending a bridge shouldn't be moved away from the bridge.
  

 

• Some units obviously shouldn't be moved at all, for example a downed pilot you are rescuing, a bunker you have been assigned to destroy.
  

 

The Randomizer:

 

• Fixed ground units would be moved to different places throughout the map. For example the AAA emplacement would be moved to a different location in the battle area. Manpads could be moved to the rooftops of different buildings etc. Tanks, APCs could also be moved as well.
  

 

 

• Aircraft becomes a bit more tricky, but again while respecting the FLOT you could deploy 3 Hinds one time, 2 Blacksharks the next time or perhaps 4 havocs another time. Perhaps then you could think about different altitudes as well. Adjusting their flight plans is outside of the scope of this.
  

 

 

• Units that are moving along a road are tricky since you can't exactly move the road that they are driving on, but you could move the AAA or SAM in a convoy to the 1st, 3rd or 8th position in the convoy. Perhaps adjust the speed or starting position. If they aren't key to the core of the mission perhaps have them only show up occasionally.
  

 

Implementation

So how would this work in implementation in the mission editor ?

 

 

• Fixed Ground Units - You would simply set the x/y location of a unit to be a randomized, then you would designate a zone using the mouse on the map within which the unit can be moved at random. This would work for AAA, Tanks, or Manpads.
  

 

 

• Aircraft - You could select Helicopters then set the model to be random. Then set the number of units to be random, with a max at some reasonable value.
  

 

 

• Moving units - You could set a presence value so the unit is only present 50% of the time or have them move slower or faster or start from further away.
  

 

 

• Obviously JTAC would need to be modified as well since, we are moving units around but I think this could be handled as well.
  

 

While I don't for once second think that these changes to the current engine are small, I think they are possibly more achievable short to medium term than a dynamic campaign engine. I believe the benefits of adding some variety to the scripted missions would be huge.

 

 

Would the benefits be enough to justify the development time though ? I'm sure you guys will answer that for me.

[GGTharos]

... tried the mission generator yet?

[goon3r]

I haven't tried it yet, though I have seen a few threads about weirdness with the way the AI seems to behave in those missions. I'm specifically talking here about the scripted missions, not just a randomly generated mission.

[Grimes]

Most of what you suggest is possible via random triggers and additional groups. However "streamlining" such idea's into easier to build/replicate would be a very powerful tool

[goon3r]

While I haven't messed with the ME for a long time, I do realize it is quite powerful. One of the things I have heard from mission builders and ED themselves is how long it takes to build and test a mission of medium length and complexity. I can only imagine how much more we could get out of the game engine if we could do some of these things easily.

[Speed]

I think the problem of randomizing location on ground units is the biggest one. You have to detect what locations are suitable and what aren't.

 

Personally, I haven't found the random mission generator very useful. It spawns units just about anywhere (in the middle of forests, for example), and the battlefield it creates is just too small, and the battles it creates just don't last long enough (for my liking). Furthermore, for this discussion, while the missions are randomly generated, there is nothing random about them once generated.

[goon3r]

I think the problem of randomizing location on ground units is the biggest one. You have to detect what locations are suitable and what aren't.

 

 

Personally, I haven't found the random mission generator very useful. It spawns units just about anywhere (in the middle of forests, for example), and the battlefield it creates is just too small, and the battles it creates just don't last long enough (for my liking). Furthermore, for this discussion, while the missions are randomly generated, there is nothing random about them once generated.

 

I'm guessing that since certain objects exist on top of the terrain, the generator should know where those objects are and thus avoid them when locating units on the map. I think the current generator could be improved upon if ED really took on the task.

 

while the missions are randomly generated, there is nothing random about them once generated.

 

Agreed, but this is a larger problem with the engine that I have a feeling may never be addressed.

[Grimes]

If we had vector based zones so you could draw specific shapes a "spawn anywhere in zone" type of spawning would work. Such a capability adds a level of controlled randomness. Units won't spawn where the mission builder doesn't want them to and they will be randomized within the zone.

 

Plus it would just be nice to use a single zone object to cover any large area that isn't circular shaped.

[goon3r]

Agreed, Vector zones would work very well for this.