Questions about graphiccards and monitors

[-odin-]

Within a couple of weeks I will do some long awaited upgrades to my computer and I have some questions. I thought that the more I read, the more things would be clarified, but I am even more confused now.

 

I've thought about replacing my HD 6850. I got it just 6 month ago because it was cheap and my old gfxcard couldn't handle A-10C. It has performed pretty well I would say so I was thinking of waiting for the new HD7000 series. But my fathers gfxcard said good night yesterday, so I was kind and gave him mine as a replacement, so now I have to get a new (or two?).

1.

My setup will eventually be as follow: 3x27" 1920x1080 + 2x8" for the Cougar MFD's.

 

 

Will I be okay with a HD 6950 for this setup? Or should I go for 2x HD 6950 in Crossfire? The reason I want to go for HD 6950 is that they are ALOT cheaper than their big brother. And from test I've seen, they perform quite similar.

 

2.

Will crossfire do any good in my configuration? I've read post that are contradictatory regarding this. Because as far as I know, crossfire only works in full screen. But I cannot run fullscreen if I want to export the MFD's to the smaller 8" screens?

 

3.

Does it matter what output you use from the gfxcard? If I use both the DVI's --> DVI-VGA adapter --> 8" screens.

And then use the HDMI and the two display ports --> for the 3x27". Will this be fine or is it something I should know?

 

4.

Are there any differences in the reference design between the different manufacturers? Because Asus and XFX are bit cheaper than others. I know Asus has little bit overclock on their reference design, but I was more thinking of the cooler. Are the cooler the same on everyone? Because in reviews I've read there has been some complaints about noice in idle from XFX but the noise in idle on Asus was fine.

 

The reason I want to go for reference card is because I am planning to watercool them, but that is still some months into the future so I don't want them to be to loud in idle in the meantime. Under load I don't care.

 

5.

I've been looking into several monitors, but I think I'll go for

Asus VE278Q

based on price and availability here in Norway and design of the bezels. Would you recommend this one? I know the BenQ M2700HD has done well in reviews but I want to use the monitors in portrait view and the BenQ hasn't a very eyefinity portrait mode friendly design :doh:

 

Alot of questions I know, but hope some of you will help me, because it is alot of money I am gonna spend, I don't want to make any mistakes.

Edited June 8, 2011 by -odin-
Added drawing

[159th_Falcon]

Within a couple of weeks I will do some long awaited upgrades to my computer and I have some questions. I thought that the more I read, the more things would be clarified, but I am even more confused now.

 

I've thought about replacing my HD 6850. I got it just 6 month ago because it was cheap and my old gfxcard couldn't handle A-10C. It has performed pretty well I would say so I was thinking of waiting for the new HD7000 series. But my fathers gfxcard said good night yesterday, so I was kind and gave him mine as a replacement, so now I have to get a new (or two?).

Your in luck, just did some research myself.

1.

My setup will eventually be as follow: 3x27" 1920x1080 + 2x8" for the Cougar MFD's.

 

Will I be okay with a HD 6950 for this setup? Or should I go for 2x HD 6950 in Crossfire? The reason I want to go for HD 6950 is that they are ALOT cheaper than their big brother. And from test I've seen, they perform quite similar.

What i have just bought is the

Saphire Radeon 6950 2GB Flex edition

 

Reason 1, better cooler, according to

Hardware.info

(NL)

Under max load it cools the card down to 52C

(reference cooler on all normal cards does about 68C)

 

Reason 2, in the flex edition Saphire included an extra bit of circuitry enabling you to use the HDMI + DVI + DVI + DP + DP all at the same time, on reference card you can only use the DVI Dual link OR the HDMI, not both at the same time.

2.

Will crossfire do any good in my configuration? I've read post that are contradictatory regarding this. Because as far as I know, crossfire only works in full screen. But I cannot run fullscreen if I want to export the MFD's to the smaller 8" screens?

Crossfire and SLI only work well if A, games are written to support it or B, Drivers are optimized for the game your playing. DCS is in neither category at the moment and to my knowledge.

There are cases known where CF/SLI actually reduces FPS significantly. I'd say, go whit a single GPU card (so not an 6990, thats still 2 GPU's in CF but on one PCB)

Make sure it has 2 GB of DDR5 memory, your going to need it whit those screens and corresponding resolution.

 

3.

Does it matter what output you use from the gfxcard? If I use both the DVI's --> DVI-VGA adapter --> 8" screens.

And then use the HDMI and the two display ports --> for the 3x27". Will this be fine or is it something I should know?

See question 1, though the Saphire Flex edition can support a total of 5 screens, i have no idea if there are resolution limitations to any of the ports.

Safest bet is to

contact Saphire.

 

4.

Are there any differences in the reference design between the different manufacturers? Because Asus and XFX are bit cheaper than others. I know Asus has little bit overclock on their reference design, but I was more thinking of the cooler. Are the cooler the same on everyone? Because in reviews I've read there has been some complaints about noice in idle from XFX but the noise in idle on Asus was fine.

 

The reason I want to go for reference card is because I am planning to watercool them, but that is still some months into the future so I don't want them to be to loud in idle in the meantime. Under load I don't care.

Yes there are differences, some come whit certain games, others, like the flex, whit "custom" coolers and in case of the flex the ability to use 5 monitors on a single card.

(reference 6950 has a max of 4, beware)

(there are "eyefinity" edition cards available that support 6 monitors, but for a price......)

 

5.

I've been looking into several monitors, but I think I'll go for

Asus VE278Q

based on price and availability here in Norway and design of the bezels. Would you recommend this one? I know the BenQ M2700HD has done well in reviews but I want to use the monitors in portrait view and the BenQ hasn't a very eyefinity portrait mode friendly design :doh:

Sorry, can't help you on this one, try to find some decent review sites and see if the monitor you want to buy has been reviewed there.

(it has been reviewed on Hardware.info, and its a good monitor, but that's it, good. And in comparison to other monitors a bit pricy for what it delivers, then again, given the fact you need 3 in your setup the bezels are important, but you might want to research the following monitors who have gotten an gold award in that same comparitive test by Hardware.info;

Dell UltraSharp U2711

NEC Multysync PA271W

Samsung SyncMaster P2770FH

Alot of questions I know, but hope some of you will help me, because it is alot of money I am gonna spend, I don't want to make any mistakes.

 

And thus a lot of answers.:D

Anyway, take your time reading trough my post, decide for YOURSELF if things make sense or not and if you think Hardware.info could be an reliable source.

Make sure to contact Saphire if you want to buy the flex for your purposes and make sure it does support the setup you want to create.

Almost all my answers are from memory and what i have read elsewhere.

I do try to find reliable resources but i can make mistakes.

 

Again, do your own resource and check if what i have said is correct.

 

And final top tip, DOUBLE CHECK card dimensions and power draw and see if it will fit in the casing you want and if the PSU you selected is able to supply the juice.

Roughly calculate what you need, then add at least 25% to be on the safe side. Don't forget most PSU's work most efficiently around 80% of there max load.

 

Guess that's all i can come up whit for now.

Good luck whit building your system and keep us posted.

I'm curious how it turns out.

 

~S~

[-odin-]

Your in luck, just did some research myself.

What i have just bought is the

Saphire Radeon 6950 2GB Flex edition

 

Reason 1, better cooler, according to

Hardware.info

(NL)

Under max load it cools the card down to 52C

(reference cooler on all normal cards does about 68C)

 

Reason 2, in the flex edition Saphire included an extra bit of circuitry enabling you to use the HDMI + DVI + DVI + DP + DP all at the same time, on reference card you can only use the DVI Dual link OR the HDMI, not both at the same time.

But this isn't a reference design, so it will make it hard/impossible to find a fullcover waterblock.

 

I didn't know that you couldn't use all of the ports at the same time. You are 100% sure about this?

 

Oh, and besides, when I see or hear Sapphire, all my warninglights starts to flash bright red. I've had terrible experience with them in the past. 3 cards that have died and I only got one of them replaced by warranty - so I will try really hard to avoid Sapphire.

 

Crossfire and SLI only work well if A, games are written to support it or B, Drivers are optimized for the game your playing. DCS is in neither category at the moment and to my knowledge.

There are cases known where CF/SLI actually reduces FPS significantly. I'd say, go whit a single GPU card (so not an 6990, thats still 2 GPU's in CF but on one PCB)

Make sure it has 2 GB of DDR5 memory, your going to need it whit those screens and corresponding resolution.

 

See question 1, though the Saphire Flex edition can support a total of 5 screens, i have no idea if there are resolution limitations to any of the ports.

Safest bet is to

contact Saphire.

 

Yes there are differences, some come whit certain games, others, like the flex, whit "custom" coolers and in case of the flex the ability to use 5 monitors on a single card.

(reference 6950 has a max of 4, beware)

(there are "eyefinity" edition cards available that support 6 monitors, but for a price......)

Well that pretty much rules out any use of crossfire then. And I want gain anything from Crosfire in a multimonitor setup either? Because this makes a 6970 maybe worth it if I will only buy a single card anyway. Especially if a 6970 will overcome a limitation of four monitors.

 

And yes, I know there are different versions with different coolers, but the problem is that most card with different coolers don't use the reference design pcb which makes it hard/impossible to fit fullcover waterblock. My question were primarly if the reference cooler was different from various cards or if the different results in reviews was simply subjective to the testers.

 

Sorry, can't help you on this one, try to find some decent review sites and see if the monitor you want to buy has been reviewed there.

(it has been reviewed on Hardware.info, and its a good monitor, but that's it, good. And in comparison to other monitors a bit pricy for what it delivers, then again, given the fact you need 3 in your setup the bezels are important, but you might want to research the following monitors who have gotten an gold award in that same comparitive test by Hardware.info;

Dell UltraSharp U2711

NEC Multysync PA271W

Samsung SyncMaster P2770FH

Dell UltraSharp U2711 -->

IPS panel - Very expensive

NEC Multysync PA271W -->

IPS panel - Insanly expensive!!!

Samsung SyncMaster P2770FH-->

Doesn't have VESA mount :-(

 

And final top tip, DOUBLE CHECK card dimensions and power draw and see if it will fit in the casing you want and if the PSU you selected is able to supply the juice.

Roughly calculate what you need, then add at least 25% to be on the safe side. Don't forget most PSU's work most efficiently around 80% of there max load.

I wasn't aware of that 80% of max workload rule-of-thumb. Thanks for the heads-up. I thought I would be fine with a 850w, but maybe I have to recalculate.

 

Thanks for your answer. Will have to do some more research then. Why does it have to be so hard to shop hardware? It is supposed to be fun to shop :megalol:

 

Anyway, couldn't help notice that you are from Den Helder. I've been there a couple of times when I was in the Navy. Didn't spend much time there though. We usually jumped straight on the train to Amsterdam when we was on leave.

[Rhinox]

What i have just bought is the

Saphire Radeon 6950 2GB Flex edition

 

Reason 1, better cooler, according to Hardware.info (NL)

Under max load it cools the card down to 52C

(reference cooler on all normal cards does about 68C)

 

Reason 2, in the flex edition Saphire included an extra bit of circuitry enabling you to use the HDMI + DVI + DVI + DP + DP all at the same time, on reference card you can only use the DVI Dual link OR the HDMI, not both at the same time.

There is also 1 reason not to buy flex edition: that is if you want to unlock deactivated stream-units and "upgrade" your 6950 to 6970. This is pretty easy, 90-95% of standard 6950 graphic cards (ati-layout, 2GB) can be unlocked. With non-standard versions (1GB, different PCB) your chances are much lower...

[-odin-]

There is also 1 reason not to buy flex edition: that is if you want to unlock deactivated stream-units and "upgrade" your 6950 to 6970. This is pretty easy, 90-95% of standard 6950 graphic cards (ati-layout, 2GB) can be unlocked. With non-standard versions (1GB, different PCB) your chances are much lower...

 

Yes, I am thinking of this too, but I thought I would wait until I had the watercooling fitted before I would do it :)

 

And btw, I was never thinking of buying the 1GB version so noone gets confused by that.

 

And I've made a little sketch of my plan he he :)

 

[159th_Falcon]

Interesting about that unlocking, though, why would the change be lower on the Flex?

Who says so? Has it been tested by trying out 50 normal ones and 50 flex editions?

 

Anyway, im more the kinda guy that buys a 6950 if he wants a 6950.

If you want a 6970, buy a 6970

 

Also, if he goes for a non flex edition he will either;

A, need an eyefinity 6 edition to hook up his monitors

B, get a 2nd GFX card in CF, which is likely to cause an performance hit in DCS.

C, Hook up Triple Head 2 Go which apparently ain't cheap either.

 

BTW, does the 6970 really perform that much better?

Going to take another look at the benchmarks.

 

~S~

 

EDIT, about Den Helder, good choice of not hanging around to long, nothing fun to do

here. Only staying here cause i can cycle to work in less then 5 mins from my current place.

[RSharpe]

I think a single 6950 will be really underpowered for what you want to do.

[-odin-]

Well, it turns out you're right Falcon. I need a Flex or a DirectCU II. But now it will probably be a 6970 DCII since the pricedifference is so low between 6950 DCII and 6970 DCII.

 

Putting two cards in crossfire doesn't allow to add more screens it seems. The second card is only a slave so you cannot connect any screens to it.

 

So I am glad I checked here because I was pretty much set on buying two 6950's. Would have been a costly mistake. Now all I need is a confirmation on how to connect the monitors - DVI vs DisplayPorts.

 

Thanks for helping me out Falcon.

[159th_Falcon]

Your Welcome Odin,

 

Anyway, here's a link to Hardware.info all the way at the bottom are some Eyefinity benchmarks for the regular 6950 2GB running eyefinity @ 5760x1080

http://nl.hardware.info/productinfo/113867/amd-radeon-hd-6950-2gb#tab:testresultaten

(the word "gemiddeld" is Dutch for "average" not sure what they mean in this context though, average performance compared to other tested cards???)

 

Though if you have the patience, i should get my 6950 this Saturday, and as previously said probably going to hook it up to my TV as well as 2 24" monitors.

So if you can wait another week or 2 to 3 i might be able to get you some "benchmarks" in DCS A10C

 

Can't promise anything though, will need to rearrange my entire PC room to make it possible.

[Rhinox]

Interesting about that unlocking, though, why would the change be lower on the Flex?

Who says so? Has it been tested by trying out 50 normal ones and 50 flex editions?

 

Anyway, im more the kinda guy that buys a 6950 if he wants a 6950.

If you want a 6970, buy a 6970

It is simply because those Flex (saphire) IceQ (HIS) Frozr (MSI) etc versions have different PCB & components. Standard bios does not work for them. You'd need "flex-version" of 6970s bios if you want to update flex-version of 6950. And it'd work only if there is no physical difference between them (as it is in the case of standard 6950 & 6970). You can find plenty of hw-forums where this is being discussed. BTW, 6950/6970 have two bioses which can be switched over so even if someone screw something while reflushing bios, he can always safely return to previous version.

 

Anyway, I'm more the guy who wants to get max from the money invested. That's why I like overclocking/unlocking so much! :-)

[159th_Falcon]

Ok, thanx for the info Rhinox

Never hearth about it thus never researched it, that's why we have these forums.

 

~S~